-=> Quoting Sandy Fitzgerald to Jorge Garcia <=-

Hello again Sandy,
 
 SF>> Can't say that I'm a great follower of Government owned businesses
 SF>> particularly with the corruption and massive free handouts which
 SF>> would never be given to private ent.
 
 JG> The truth of the matter is that no private enterprise would have
 JG> really been interested in the supplying such things as Telecom-
 JG> munications, Rail Hospitals, Electricity, Sewerage and Water, etc,

 SF> You appear to have missed the point which I was making in my
 SF> opening statement. If you read it carefully you will note that I was
 SF> refering to the massive handouts & perks which govn employees appear
 SF> to receive which would not be given to private ent. people.  Another
 SF> instance is were their has always been the job for the boys in govn
 SF> guaranteed till retirement.

...MMM I was not commenting on your opening statement as much as
the fact that there has been a lot of anti-government enterprise sentiment
expressed at this echo lately. Just me being a bit of a stirrer, I guess.

With regards to corruption, jobs for the boys, etc. I really don't think
that corruption and cronyism (did I spell that right?) are more prevalent
in the public sector than in any other sector. Private sector management
earn an awful lot of money compared to the people who actually do the work
and certainly a great deal more than their public sector equivalents. The
consumer pays for these high salaries and if not, it is taken off Joe Blow
low salary earner. There has always been "jobs for the boys" in the private
sector also, and I'll bet my last dollar that the recruitment procedures
are not as transparent as in the public sector where the concepts of EEO, ID
etc originated. The system is neither flawless nor incorruptible. However,
I can cite a large number of (very famous) cases of private enterprise
corruption and shady business just off the top of my head (but I won't).

As for jobs till retirement ..... that is definitely not the experience in
the public service at the moment :-). This would be funny if it didn't
cut so close.
 
 JG> The truth of the matter is that public ownership has served Australia
 JG> well over the years. That is not to say that this is not in need of
 JG> review for some sectors. However, privatisation should not be carried
 JG> out without proper thought, on an ideological whim, or to pay for
 JG> election promises made on environmental issues.

 SF> I have no objection to that at all.
 
 SF>> .....govn run fleet of limousines charged out their
hourly rate
 SF>> at $80.00 per hour.  Considering they pay no sales tax on their
 SF>> vechicles, their drivers are on saleries not the hourly rate and
 SF>> their fuel and running cost would be almost half that of private
 SF>> ent, yet the private ent charge out rate is $55.00 per hour.
 
 JG> TV is a bad teacher.

 SF> Why do you say that when all it was doing in this instance was
 SF> relaying the facts.

I don't really know what the facts were in this instance. And I don't
really think that you would ever hear all the facts on TV. I have seen a
number of news items and documentaries about subjects that I know a great
deal about. At best, not all the facts are presented, so that the viewer
cannot make a good quality decision on the subject, at worst the matter
presented was just plain wrong. That goes for the Newspapers and Radio too.

 JG> In fact gov enterprise could always undercut priv ent. because of
 JG> all of the things you already stated. The fleet of lemos would be
 JG> there for another (primary) function.

 SF> ........it should at least be competitive or get rid of it.

Agreed (Hey that's twice! I'm loosing form here :-) ...) If the hire/cost
price was higher for both public servants **and** the general public get
rid of it.

Let me tell you another story:  DAS fleet runs a car hire service for the
public service. The **unconditional** hire price for a Camry is about
$45 p/d (I'm not aware of any subsidies, but I could be wrong). This is
the cost of a couple of long cab rides anywhere in Australia except
Canberra. My experience is that this cannot be matched by any private
company.

There are a lot of people who maintain that the public service is
inneficient and that the only way to introduce efficiency is to privatise.
That has never been demostrated (proven) to me, and I have come to the
conclusion that it is one of those things that so many people say without
any real challenge that it has become fact. I cannot think of one
example where private enterprise has delivered the same level of quality of
service, with the same degree of care for employees and their training and
still deliver the goods at a cheaper price.

Truly, I am not a great supporter of government run **enterprise**. The
privatisation of Quantas, Commonwealth Bank, NSW's GIO, etc have all been
good moves, I think. But all of these were sold into an environment of
vigorous competition. I'm not so sure about Telstra....

 JG> The truth often lies neither in the black nor the white, but in the
 JG> shades of grey.

 SF> Lost me here.

Don't worry, just me being a stirrer again  :-).

Thanks for the reply Sandy,

Cheers,

Jorge

--- GEcho 1.12/beta+