Responding to a message by Dan, to Charles on ...
DT>CB> Since there have been many well-publicized reports (A Nation At 
DT>CB>Risk, U.S. Ed. Department NAEP scores, etc.) over the years 
DT>CB>indicating that our students score lower in math and writing than do 
DT>CB>children in other nations, a few of which I've quoted here, can you 
DT>CB>cite evidence to support your position?
DT>
DT>Well-publicized inaccurate reports.
How can I argue with logic like that?  You've got your mind made up 
and you're not going to let the facts change your mind.
DT>There are many who like to bash education (I believe it's a great 
DT>political football) and it's easy to slant these studies (and 
DT>they have been slanted).
I agree that the bashing is not always warranted, but one can't 
throw the baby out with the bath water -  the position that schools 
can do better is not without foundation.
DT>I think that when many studies which compare today's SAT's with 
DT>SAT's of yesterday there are many factors which are ignored.
I will agree with you that the comparisons made from year-to-year on 
the SAT scores do not take into account a lot of factors, including 
socio-economic class of those taking the tests, but we were talking 
about comparing the U.S. with other nations (both taking the same 
tests), not comparing students across decades in the U.S.
DT>It doesn't but if one looks the data is there.
I read about education all of the time and I've not run across the 
data you're talking about.
DT>Oh but I do have standards for my kids.  Mine are very realistic and 
DT>appropriate.  They differ from child to child according to the child's 
DT>abilities.  
Okay, let's presume for a minute that the whole language approach 
you use is not based in the "self-esteem now" theory, and agree that 
you do challenge the children you teach.  If we have standards, 
e.g., that all children will be reading at the third grade level by 
the end of third grade, then how can you accept less from some 
children than from others?  Don't we need to get even the slower 
kids up to speed if we're going to keep them on grade level?  I know 
kindergarten is early - a lot of what is done is readiness rather 
than actual reading and writing, but a certain degree of progress 
must be achieved if the kids are to be ready for first grade, am I 
not right?  When you adjust your standards for a child based on your 
perception of their "ability," are your adjustments still going to 
keep the child on track to make grade level?
DT>If it is really boring then you had better care because if the child 
DT>isn't engaged in the lesson you are wasting your breath.
Some days it is boring - and that's a fact, Jack.  Virtually every 
student I've known has been bored at some point in their education 
but they were still expected to learn.  Not only do the kids get 
bored, but some days I get bored working - I get bored writing 
plans, I get bored grading tests and sometimes I even get bored 
teaching a lesson.  I do my job because it is my livelihood - I like 
it better than most anything else I can imagine doing, but that does 
not mean that there aren't times it gets boring.  Life is like that. 
 If one expects everything in life to be entertaining, then they are 
in for a big disappointment.
DT>Not true....in any given elementary grade level we can have up to two 
DT>years of developmental difference.  I have a young girl who is an 
DT>emergent reader in my class.  I also have a child who is borderline 
DT>retarded.  On a developmental continumn, he is at the bottom; she is at 
DT>the top.  The rest of the class falls inbetween.  I don't lower my 
DT>standards.  For the girl I have very high standards because I think she 
DT>is extremely capable.  For the boy I hope he can write his name at the 
DT>end of the year and can recogize most of his letters.  I cannot expect 
DT>this boy to learn beyond his abilitys.  I think that what's important is 
DT>seeing growth and continued progress in each child.  
We disagree.  Unless a child is labeled (LD, ADD, MR, etc.) and has 
an IEP that says otherwise, all children must be held accountable 
for the standards that have been established for that grade level.  
If we do NOT make them accountable, they will fall into a pit which 
they will never crawl out of.
Chuck Beams
Fidonet - 1:2608/70
cbeams@future.dreamscape.com
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