"Marc Verhaegen"  wrote in
news:bvoqc5$2u7r$1{at}darwin.ediacara.org: 

> 
> "J Moore"  wrote in message
> news:bvnj9t$2jcl$1{at}darwin.ediacara.org...
> 
>> You are using the "savannah" strawman again, forgetting that we're
>> talking 
> about early hominids who may not have been in dense forest rather than
> on savannahs, and probably also forgetting that savannahs typically
> have trees. 
> 
> Whatever, there is not the slightest indication human ancestors were
> ever savanna dwellers: humans are the opposites of typical savanna
> dwellers: we are slow & fat, easily overheated, we need a lot of water
> & sodium (both scarse at the savanna). We have a poor sense of smell.
> Savanna dwellers don't have varied vocalisations. They grow up fast &
> die early. Running upright is the stupidest thing you can do in the
> savanna: predators as well as your prey see you from far; it is slower
> than running on all fours. Etc. Believing that human ancestors were
> savanna dwellers is ridiculous. 
> http://allserv.rug.ac.be/~mvaneech/outthere.htm 

I have an open mind on the importance of savanna habitat on our 
development, especially as to bipedalisim. I would note that there are no 
other bipedal savanna dwelling mammals. Of course there are no other 
bipedal coast dwelling mammals. Bipedalism may well be a result of our 
ancestors descent from the trees to dwell on the ground, but it is 
probably not a result of the specific habitat in which they dwelled. I 
would note that crab-eating macaques are primates who make extensive use 
of seaside resources - but they are not bipedal. Baboons are savanna 
dwelling primates with considerable social interaction - but they are not 
bipedal. 

However I object to several of the statements that you present above as 
facts. We are on the slow side in terms of sprint speed, but are one of 
the better mammals at long distance running. Our heat regulation is in 
fact excellent - we are capable of sustained exertion for hours at 
temperatures of 90 degrees F. I agree that this requires water - but then 
I readily concede that behaviorally we are very attached to water. 
Savanna dwellers include elephants, who do not grow up fast, who do not 
die early, and who exhibit varied vocalisations. And if you are a good 
long distance runner but a poor sprinter, you want to see everything from 
afar - because you can only outrun it if you get a good head start, and 
it can't outrun you as long as you can keep it in your sights. 

Now as to _believing_ that human ancestors were savanna dwellers - well, 
humans are very good at coming up with rational sounding explanations for 
almost anything. This is one reason why many longtimers on sbe are 
dubious of Just So Stories. I think we need more paleontological evidence 
- which admittedly may be hard to come by for seaside sites. But I would 
not characterize the belief in savanna dwelling as _ridiculous_.  


Yours,

Bill Morse
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