Richard, again with your permission I am going to change the Subject of 
the message from "Aeroperu-Part XI 2/3"  to "Engine Loss V-1, V-R" which 
is what we are talking about.
RB>I can't disagree with you on what you say.  I'm trying to get to the
RB>area of  REFLEX.  This is were we always seemed to worry about, 
RB>i.e., engine out after V-1 maybe at VR and is the proper 
RB>rudder going to be used or will a reflex come in and a 
RB>large amount of aileron be used.
Almost invariably to a new Pilot in the Aircraft there is a tendency to 
use the Aileron to try to correct the problem.  As we discussed earlier 
this just complicates the problem. Wrong control surfaces exposed, 
Ailerons/Spoilers that will further degrade flight and not stop the 
azmuth turn.  If the failure occurs immediately after V-1 the amount of 
rudder can be determined rather quickly as the runway track can be used.  
After losing sight of the R/W it becomes more difficult to the student.  
The pumping of Rudder and Aileron in concert with each other and at 
times out of phase seems to me to be the largest area of concern and 
creates the most difficulty.
RB>In the 747,  I call it riding the BULL.
We didn't have a name for it.
RB>The simulator will 
RB>not talk to you like the airplane will.
The Phase III Simulators talk alot and the problem is that most people 
don't listen.  The older simulators used to give those of you that used 
them the chance to use the excuse, "Boy the Simulator doesn't fly like 
the airplane".
RB>If a person 
RB>startes to use abrupt aileron in the simulator it's a hand 
RB>full,  doesn't take long in the airplane to know better.
That's a great area of Training in the Phase III's.
RB>In the simulator I would tell people on initial (to make 
RB>them aware of the aileron) "if I can see the control wheel 
RB>move, you are using to much aileron".
RB>This would get them past the first period without RIDING THE BULL.
Sounds to me like the 747 is quite different from the 727/757/767.
RB>Simulator engine out work may have to be repeated several times to
RB>get the  pilot on initial to be aware of the amount of control.  No 
RB>big deal, just go back to the end of the runway and do it 
RB>again.  Airplane,  different story and no one does this 
RB>type training in the aircraft anymore,  that I know of.
Engine cuts can be repeated as many times as is necessary to train the 
reflexes to recognize and use the proper controls.  I agree it's a great 
training tools to give them repetition training.  It reminds me of going 
to the Golf driving range to fine tune the tempo of the swing.
RB>I'm not saying a F/O is not competent,  what I am saying is 
RB>the instant at VR when maybe everything has been very 
RB>normal as about 99 per cent are, the F/O is flying and the 
RB>right engine of a DC-9 goes Kaput.  The heading veers,  
RB>maybe the Captain is not neer the rudders with his feet.
That's a big mistake of the Captain.  There is not a time that the other 
Pilot is flat-footed on the floor and not prepared to assume control of 
the A/C.  If he is "not neer" the controls then he is not doing his job.
RB>Does he
RB>say, "Sir, I will now take control",  and does he put his feet on the
RB>rudders, or is it possible there is a lapse of procedure 
RB>for some reason at this time and he gives it a reflex 
RB>amount of aileron,  like riding the BULL in the 747?
Is that what "riding the BULL in the 747" like?
RB>I have ridden through so many in the airplane (B-720) and 
RB>have seen what can happen it has always made me wonder how 
RB>to overcome this reaction.
"Pilots be Prepared" is the answer.  Don't know anything about the B-720 
as I never flew it.  I would assume that the loss of outboard engine 
would just be magnified over the say B-727 but be in line with the B-
757/767.
RB>Give me your comments.
There they are above.....Jim.....
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 X CMPQwk 1.4 #1684 X "What's your minimums? What's your weather"?
--- Maximus/2 3.01
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