> BK>Read Bob Justman and Herb Solow's book, they spent a fair amount of
> time
> BK>discussing the making of that episode. I think you'll find
> BK>it's more a case of the realities of production then
> BK>anything to do with "the darker side of GR" However if you
> BK>want "the darker side", etc.. there is a healthy dose of
> BK>reality about the goings on during the TOS era.
 
> I read it right afterwards.  I also read the unauthorized
> Roddenberry bio.  There is some nasty, nasty stuff in there.  But I
> have this seperation between Trek as a concept and a story telling
> arena and Gene Roddenberry whatever his personal faults.  A lot of
> people don't.  That's sad.
 
I agree.. the concept is great to a point although I don't always agree with 
it.. especially when it went into the TNG phase.. and after 10 years in TV.. 
I'm well aware of keeping the "personalities" as a seperate issue. ;)  
 
 
> BK>I'd have to qualify this by saying I haven't watched
> BK>Voyager that much. It lost me early on.. and when I can
> BK>back to watch "Flashback" I quit watching it after. I
> BK>really don't consider what I was watching
> BK>"Action/adventure".
 
> In each episode, the ship must be in danger.  Recently (last
> season) they did an episode where people with long range transporters
> were taking over the ship.  It ended in an "exciting" run and gun
> sequence.  We never even found out who the hostage takers were or why
> they thought beaming people off of starship was a good idea.  Captain
> janeway got the drop on the leaders with a phaser and earned freedom
> for all of their hostages at gun point and then the story was over,
> roll credits.  Inane.  But there was some shooting and some running
> involved.  That sounds like action adventure to me.
 
Well I didn't see it, but even Action/adventure must be writen well to go 
over well. This doesn't sound like a good example. :/ 
 
 
> BK>There was a great potential for Voyager.. but it's just plain
> flat/mediocre
> BK>writing. Do you know that on their scripts.. it's just
> BK>dialog.. nothing else.
> BK>Do you realise that the writers don't have the capacity to
> BK>try and pass along the "concept" of their writings?
 
> I'm not certain what you mean in that paragraph.  I have found
> few Voyager episodes to be *about* anything, despite some flashing
> lights and some exciting motion on the screen.
 
Part of the problem.. you see when a writer puts together a script with a 
good idea.. they need to use various scripting devices to put forth that idea 
and NOT leave it to the director to "interprete" the concept.  
 
In other words.. *IF* I had an action/adventure script.. part of which 
included notes for the director or the CGI folks.... it wouldn't work the
way they're doing things.  
 
> BK>Well, if I had the time.. I could get into a really good
> BK>discussion of the writing with you.. Personally I think
> BK>there's far more involved with the problems there. I just
> BK>don't have the free time for that involved of a
> BK>discussion.. :/
 
> I'm sorry that you don't.  I understand if work takes you away.
> We must have our priorities.
 
That and FIdonet.. sigh.. 
 
> This sort of discussion is what I view
> this sub for.  But maybe our little discussion here can be the spark
> for a thread.
 
Well I always read this area.. I have to.. it's a question of the time I have 
at hand when I read it.  
 
 
> BK>It's been my opinion since "T&T" (DS-9) that they still
> BK>have the potential.. they could easily do a good TOS era
> BK>show and have a ball doing it *IF* they can do it without
> BK>the consistent writing problems that they've shown for some
> BK>time now.. and *IF* they remember that a big part of TOS
> BK>was crew chemistry.. and not Treknobabble.
 
> BK>Get rid of the politics, open up the writing resources..
> BK>and GO for it. Heck they have a good part of a classic
> BK>Constitution Class already built and in storage.
 
> I disagree with an assumption you make here.  TOS wasn't the
> great God of Trek.  It wasn't a perfect show and had some flaws and
> some dropped balls of it's own.  Setting a new series on an old ship
> wouldn't solve anything if they were going to a stupid pattern of story
> telling to begin with.
 
You misunderstand..  TOS WAS the great spark of TREK for many of us.. it 
created that hard core fan group that allowed TMP and later movies, it 
allowed for TNG.. it allowed for the franchise. More then that.. it allowed 
for all the Sci-fi that came after.. Trek was in a sense.. the grandfather of 
much of what followed over the years including Star Wars, Alien(s), etc etc.
 
  
More then that.. it's an example of a show that worked.. if only in the sense 
of the hard core viewer segment that loved it so. It had writing (as much as 
practical for those days and production values), it had chemistry, etc etc.
 
Sure it had flaws.. it was years before it's time if only in production 
values for what they were trying. But could you imagine something like a 
"TOS" type show with that kind of writing and the current production values?
They solved things on a realistic basis without reverting to Treknobable! :)
 
Man what a concept! :) 
 
> There would be very few stories that you might tell on the older
> ship that you couldn't tell on Voyager, assuming no format
> restrictions.
 
To do so would mean revising Voyager. Crew chemistry would have to change, 
writing has ALWAYS needed to change, etc etc. 
 
Besides.. I have a single love for the older class ships.. they were cruder, 
and the crew had to be more "ceative" in the solutions to the weekly 
provlems.. :)
  
 
> BK>Nope, not with the Paramount resorces. Voyager will go on..
> BK>bad ratings and all.
 
> BK>                                     BK
 
> Maybe if they beat the dead horse enough they'll get bored and
> lift the writing restrictions.
 
 
You don't completely understand the structure as it exists and I'm not at 
liberty to discuss everything I'm aware of. 
 
> BTW the big time travel episode of Voyager,  I thought was neat
> up unit the very end of the show.  The ending was useless! Dumb!
> Idiotic!  They had a nice idea  and wrote on it until they reached the
> end of their two hours and then had some deux ex machina turn up to
> smooth things out in the last five minutes of the episode.  Duh!
 
SOP writing these days.. they do NOT understand how to conclude an episode.. 
and to qualify that.. no, I didn't see it. But this isn't a problem endemic 
to only Voyager..  
 
 
                                    BK 
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