==> A hush fell over the room when Judith Labonte said to Harriet Levy <== 
 JL> That's interesting about hawks following you; however, is it safe to 
 JL> discuss this here?  
I suppose that would be a question best put to Rich or Tim, our Moderators.
As far as I know, this is a general chat area for people in recovery.
 JL> better off discussing it there. On 12 steps one of the co-moderators
 JL> is having a bird - no pun intended - because I am replying to off-topic
 JL> messages.
Well, isn't that the moderators job?  From what I understand, 12 Steps
is a Step specific echo.  Would you go into a step meeting and talk 
about general crap?  I wouldn't.  If I want to do that, I go to a 
discussion meeting.
  (Of course she also refuses to tell me HOW to use netmail -
Of course....how could she?  She doesn't know what BBS software your
sysop is running.  They're all different, you know.
 JL> telling me to ask my sysop, which I've done and he is trying to find 
 JL> out for me - the one on Keystone - but hasn't been able to get back to
 JL> me fast enough for her.  So much for the idea of asking for help, huh?
Still, I doubt that a step specific echo is the place for general chit-chat.
 JL> )  Anyway, the long and short of it is I have decided to opt to stay 
 JL> off that echo since I got what I perceive as a very unfriendly reply.
Marge????  Unfriendly???  
Oh.
 JL> I don't want to end up unwelcome on this echo too and that is what I 
 JL> feel the case is there.  To be honest with you, I've just about had it
 JL> with BBSing period over this type of power plays that make someone who
 JL> is not a computer professional and/or a hacker par excellence feel 
 JL> entirely unwelcome because of their lack of skills.
That's interesting.  That's not been my experience.
 JL> To be honest with you, I'm at the point of writing off twelve step
 JL> programs  altogether.  People SAY they care, but when I ask for help I
 JL> find that  their talk is very cheap.  
In my experience there is a difference between asking for help and wanting
to be rescued.  I have no problem helping someone, who needs it...but I
refuse to rescue anyone...for any reason.  There has to be some willingness
to "go to any lengths" before I'll do that.  I guess I've been hanging out
in too many Al-Anon meetings. :-)
I find that when I ask for help, I get it.  When I *demand* help, people
are likely to walk away.  Of course, it took me a long to realize that 
what I thought was asking for help was really a plea to be rescued.  That
was a tough lesson to learn....which I learned with the help of a cyber-
buddy that I'd met right here....hunh.
 JL> Talk is cheap.  I wish that I knew people who cared enough to walk the
 JL> walk and HELP people who are grabbing at straws - or modems - in a 
 JL> desperate attempt to stay in touch with recovery.

 JL> I'd love to discuss some of our mutual beliefs, but I don't dare to 
 JL> after this - anyway, it's been MY experience that anyone who REALLY
 JL> has a Higher Power that is not the conventional GOD of the churches, is
 JL> welcome only in theory or if they keep their mouth shut about it.  
That is definately NOT been my experience in Fidonet.  I've had talks
either by voice or modem with most of the Moderators of most of the
recovery echos (at least the ones I post in).  ALL are familiar with
my spiritual beliefs...I've been out of the broomcloset for a long time,
and I've not found the anti-pagan bias that you seem to experience.  
What I have found, for the most part, is an across the board request to
adhere to various echo rules...which mostly mean staying on topic in
topic specific echos.
Do you get the Higher Power echo?  Not only is this kind of discussion
permitted...it's what the echo is *about*.
 JL> Other folks can bring up their Higher Power by name - use the words 
 JL> Jesus Christ when they talk like they're name dropping - but, at least
 JL> around here, let someone else mention the Godess and people go 
 JL> BALLISTIC. 
You must be talking about your local area...as I said, this has not
been my experience.
 JL> All in all I am profoundly discouraged and hurt right now.  I doubt I 
 JL> will answer many messages on here either anymore.  I don't want to 
 JL> believe people on here would do this to me, but I also believed this 
 JL> woman was my friend - besides being a comoderator - and when I ask her
 JL> for help all she can say is go ask the sysop.  
Really, Judith, what else *can* she do?  If it were her BBS, I'm sure
she would walk you through it....but....
 JL> Having been a cosysop, I
 JL> know what that's like - people think one does not have a life outside 
 JL> of the boards, but most of us do.
You were a co-sysop and you don't know how to do netmail???  I thought
that was de rigour.
Bright blessings,
Harriet
... Questions?  Comments?  Resentments?
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.11
---
---------------