=-> Quoting MICHAEL DOYLE to MARTIN RIDGLEY re: Renaissance:
 MD> Well, Prog vs. Jazz vs. Pop is pretty easy.  Wether a band is prog or
 MD> jazz largely depends on their influences and what they consider
 MD> themselves.  Do they have a Rock background or a Jazz background?
   True, but the boundaries do become pretty blurred with certain artists
 like Allan Holdsworth and Brand X who seem to blend Prog-rock and Jazz.
 MD> And pop, that's flavored carbonated water.
   Yeah, that's it....  ;-)
 MR> So, in your opinion, are Renaissance `on the very low side of
 MR> Prog-rock' because they didn't make extensive use of unusual
 MR> synthesized sounds, or studio effects, electric guitars, and/or
 MR> odd time signatures?  ;-\
 MD> Maybe so.  But (in my defn.) there is also the obligatory "tearin' up
 MD> your axe" requirement to be prog-rock at some point (Palmer banging
 MD> gongs, Emerson, well, he's a case all by himself; Steve Howe lettin'
 MD> loose, King Crimson takin' off, Gentle Giant rockin' out, etc.). I
 MD> never heard Ren. let go, but then again, I haven't studied them as you
 MD> most definitely have, so you probably have some good examples for me,
   Nope.  They did frequently have long instrumental sections, but they 
 were often more textural and involved interplay, rather than being solo
 sections.  I'm pretty sure those parts were all carefully worked out and 
 there wasn't much improvisation happening.
 MD> How about this "Phish" band?  I just don't see why they are 
 MD> considered prog.  Am I missing something?  Echolyn, them I get.
 
   I haven't heard Echolyn, yet.  As for Phish, I think that the popular 
 definition of Prog is changing to suit changing times and changing musical 
 styles.  What would you call them?
 MD> I just got that "History of Prog" 5 CD set from Collectors Choice
 MD> (they were $30 cheaper than Rhino-direct, counting my $10 coupon)
 MD> delivered to my door, haven't even opened it yet, It has one tune by
 MD> Ren. on it - "Kings & Queens."  I think I'll go have a listen.   
 
   Cool!  That's from the very first album, _Renaissance_ (1969), with
 Keith Relf, Jane Relf, Jim McCarty, Louis Cennamo, and John Hawken. 
 I wonder if they included the whole track?  The original runs 10:55.
 
    Cheers,
             Martin
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