dkomo  wrote:

> John Wilkins wrote:
>>
>> William L Hunt  wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, 20 Feb 2004 17:00:33 +0000 (UTC), dkomo 
>>> 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> William L Hunt wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, 18 Feb 2004 22:57:56 +0000 (UTC), dkomo 
>>>>> 
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Tim Tyler wrote:
>>>>>> dkomo  wrote or quoted:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Web pages of unknown origin are not
necessarily good resources.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This was a set of lecture notes from a course at University 
>>>>>> College
>>>>>> London:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.ucl.ac.uk/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The course was "C339 Sex, Genes and Evolution
2004":
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.ucl.ac.uk/~ucbhkof/stalkie/c339
>>>>>>
>>>>>  I'll just point out that Tim is being a little harsh
because the
>>>>> website makes clear they "assume" equal
investment cost for male 
>>>>> and
>>>>> female offspring. From that "assumption"
they derive/use a primary 
>>>>> sex
>>>>> ratio of 1:1.
>>>>
>>>> Please be advised that I don't by any means consider the argument
>>>> about what Fisher actually said to be concluded.  I think both you 
>>>> and
>>>> Tim Tyler are wrong.  Fisher never used terminology like "equal
>>>> investment cost."  His original theory of the sex
ratio is as I 
>>>> stated
>>>> in my previous post where I quoted from the lecture notes.
>>>>
>>>> I've carried this as far as I can for the moment because I don't 
>>>> have
>>>> time to run off to the local university library and reference 
>>>> Fisher's
>>>> _Genetical Theory of Natural Selection_, where he presented his sex
>>>> ratio theory.  I'm instead relying on secondary sources which I have
>>>> on hand which are interpretations of Fisher's theory.
>>>>
>>>> You can simply provide the relevant quote from Fisher's book to 
>>>> prove
>>>> me wrong, and I'll accept that -- but only that.
>>>>
>>>  I'll quote from the website you provided (lecture notes):
>>>
>>> "Fisher: optimal sex ratio reflects the cost
>>> of producing each sex.
>>> If males are twice as costly to produce as
>>> females, then males are only worth
>>> producing if they have twice the
>>> reproductive success of females. This will
>>> occur when there are twice as many
>>> females as males in the population. That
>>> is, the optimal sex ratio is 1:2.
>>> In order to determine the optimal sex ratio,
>>> the number of individuals of each sex must
>>> be weighted by the cost of producing this
>>> sex."
>>>
>>>  Why would you think this is not also from Fisher when they are 
>>> saying
>>> it is? Or why would you accept what they say is from Fisher in one
>>> section but not what they say is from Fisher in another?
>>>  I would also have to reference Fisher's book to be sure what he
>>> "exactly" said.
>>>  William L Hunt
>>>
>>> ...
>>> [snip]
>>> ...
>>>>   --dkomo{at}cris.com
>>>>
>>
>> Page 158ff in the 1958 edition (but no apparent resetting from the 
>> 1930
>> edition); excuse typos:
>>


>> God, there was a man who knew how to use a comma...
>> --
>
> And semicolons.  And long paragraphs.
>
> I ran across a number of comments on the web about _Genetical Theory
> of Natural Selection_.  Many biologists consider Fisher's book to be
> second in importance only to _Origin of Species_ for the theory of
> evolution.  Fisher, however, ranks far down the list from Darwin for
> prose style, IMHO.
>
It was noted in the obits for William Hamilton that he had hoped at the
end of his life to get a first in Fisher's GToNS. The book is deep -
really deep, despite the eugenics of the latter half. The reason why I
typed all that out by hand was to read it in detail (a process that
works well for me, as I'm a lousy typist and have to proofread
carefully). It was worth it. I now have about six independent lines of
thought from those two paragraphs...

-- 
John Wilkins
john_SPAM{at}wilkins.id.au   http://wilkins.id.au
"Men mark it when they hit, but do not mark it when they miss"
                                                - Francis Bacon



-- 
John S Wilkins
Head, Communication Services
The Walter and Eliza Hall Institute of Medical Research
Parkville, Victoria, Australia
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