To: 
From: "Vern Humphrey" 
Reply-To: r_catholic-l{at}yahoogroups.com

> >
> > VH> There is a story that Sir Humphrey Davies was on a train,
> and the train
> > passed a flock of sheep.  Someone said "Those sheep have just
> been sheered,"
> > and Sir Humphrey said "On this side, anyway."
> >
>  Ummm, not sure I've heard of Sir Humphrey!  Hope
>  he wasn't a bad man.

Look him up -- the last name is also sometimes spelled Davie and Davy.
>
>  Meaning, you can't see the other side of the shorn
>  sheep.  But, it's reasonable to assume BOTH sides
>  had the wool removed.

That's correct.  The moral is, some things are obvious even when you can't see them.
>
> > VH> When things DON'T happen under one set of circunstances,
> and DO happen
> > under
> > another.  And when the people who MAKE them happen cite those very
> > circumstances as their motivation, then we can assume the sheep
> have been
> > sheered on both sides.
> > >
>  I think I understand.  E.g., following a certain course
>  of action at Time A resulted in Consequences B.  And
>  to do the same acts at Time C will get the same, or
>  very similar results as at B?

Very likely.
> >
>> but had the Nationalists simply ALLOWED it to happen, there
> > would have been no RE-action from the British public, because that would
> > have amounted to surrender.  It would have all been over before
> there could
> > be any reaction.
> >
>  I can see that.  Although I hope such Ulster Prot
>  brutality would indeed have galvanized into action
>  decent people in the rest of the UK.  Again, our
>  own civil rights movement comes to mind.

It didn't galvanize the British into action -- until the Nationalists fought back.

Unarmed, their major weapon was the barricade -- they built barricades
across the streets to limit access to Nationalist neighborhoods.
>
> > VH> That didn't make things better!
> > >
>  Too true!  The RUC was far worse then, I know.

And only continued resistance led to the present state of affairs.

Simply removing obstacles to Catholic employment, civil rights, and so on
would have prevented the "Troubles."  But that was not to be. 
The response to violence was ultimately the same as that response requested
peacefully earlier.
>
> > SMB> No, I had Robert McKay's definition of guerrillas
> > > as irregular but legitimate soldiers in mind.  None of
> > > the rival "paramilitaries" on either side in the Six
> > > Counties fits that description.
> >
>  I'm sorry, but definitions have to be fairly strict to
>  be any use.  I argue that legitimate guerrillas
>  don't target civlilians or other non military objects.
>  If they do, they become no better than their
>  opponents.

But you don't have a definition there.  Just to use the word
"legitimate" doesn't mean anything.  WHAT is legitimate, as
opposed to illigitimate?  How can we tell the one from the other?
> >
>  True. And you say there is no need for torture.  That
>  ordinary means of interrogation by experts are suf-
>  ficient?  Including using the "good cop, bad cop"
>  routine?
>
Torture will make a man say what the interrogator wants to hear, which is
not the same thing as telling the truth.


------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~-->
Where Catholic Singles Go Online - StRaphael.net is the world's #1 website
for single Catholics. If you are looking for friendship, marriage or even a
religious vocation, StRaphael.cnet is the place to be. Join Today Free!
www.StRaphael.net
http://us.click.yahoo.com/r_NezC/1M1FAA/EDtLAA/28VolB/TM
---------------------------------------------------------------------~->

Visit R_Catholic-L member homepages at: http://home.cox.rr.com/rraphael
http://rcatholic-l.freeservers.com
http://hometown.aol.com/philvaz
http://www.lisaslighthouse.org
http://members.aol.com/SisterNeri/


Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--- BBBS/NT v4.00 MP