John Edser wrote:

> BOH:-
> We also seem to disagree on whether anyone has tried to use Hamilton's 
> rule to separate OFM from OFA.  You are claiming that it has, but have 
> still not provided any evidence for this.  So, I'm asking you again - 
> please provide the evidence.  Cite papers!  Books!
> 
> JE:-
> I can't imagine where you got that from!
> I am NOT claiming that is HAS been separated
> I am claiming that OFM and OFA cannot be separated
> within Hamilton's rule unless K, the absolute
> donor fitness which is numerically equivalent to
> cmax, is appended to the rule thus:
> 
But you are also claiming that Hamilton's rule HAS BEEN USED to make 
this separation (by claiming that it has been mis-used).  Quite simply, 
I want to see evidence for this.  So far none has been forthcoming.


>>JE:-
>>The other is OFM which requires no altruism at all
>>and no hypothetical gene level of selection. This is
>>why the rule was misused to support OFA when
>>group selection failed to be able to do so. IF as
>>you have agreed , that at  all times OFA OR OFM
>>could be operating within the rule then, you may be misusing
>>OFM to support  OFA whenever you use the rule
>>to support OFA, no exceptions.
>>
>>_________________________________________
>>Do you agree that you cannot use OFM to support
>>OFA?
>>_________________________________________
> 
> 
> BOH:-
> Of course - they are mutually exclusive (by definition).  This should be 
> obvious.
> 
> JE:-
> Then you have no option but to agree that
> Hamilton's rule was utterly misused to
> support OFA within nature after group
> selection failed to do so 
> because:
> 
>    ..AT ALL TIMES, EITHER OFA OR OFM
>    ARE OPERATING TO SUPPORT OFA.. 
> 
I'm sorry, I don't have a clue what you mean when you write that OFM is 
operating to support OFA.

Bob

-- 
Bob O'Hara
Department of Mathematics and Statistics
P.O. Box 4 (Yliopistonkatu 5)
FIN-00014 University of Helsinki
Finland
Telephone: +358-9-191 23743
Mobile: +358 50 599 0540
Fax:  +358-9-191 22 779
WWW:  http://www.RNI.Helsinki.FI/~boh/
Journal of Negative Results - EEB: www.jnr-eeb.org
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