>>> Todd Henson on Order 
 TH> By Origin, I mean that which brought the universe into existence - the
 TH> force or whatever that caused the Big Bang.
The Big Bang was it's own causeless cause.  No excuse is given for it's 
existence.  An improbability nay unto impossibility.
 
 TH> If there was ever a
 TH> point in which absolutely nothing existed, no universe, or pre-existing
 TH> Origin, then would anything ever exist?
What is the cause of the Origin?  Perhaps the Origin or Big Bang predates 
time.  For causation time is necessary.  You claim nothing causes only 
nothing.  That may be so in temporal context, but in timelessness, cause and 
effect are hard to distinguish.
 TH> So, seeing as how existence does indeed exist, then there was never
 TH> a time when
 TH> nothing existed, that something has always existed - something beyond
 TH> the finite progression we live in, something beyond time, something
 TH> without beginning or end - an Origin that is truly infinite. 
This is all based upon temporal consideration.
 TH> Because existence exists, it has always existed on some level, and
 TH> therefore we can see the logical necessity for the existence of a
 TH> certain level of existence that had no cause, because everything that
 TH> is caused did not exist at one time. 
Huh?  More temporal cogitation.  Are you sure?
That which exists in timelessness can have no cause.
						The Improbable Universe
	The universe came into being by quantum uncertainty.  The probability of an 
universe appearing out of nowhere is zero.  Because of uncertainty, that 
probability is not exact.  Yet with infinite patience, a micro-probable event 
will happen.  So there is no absolute assurance that only nothing comes out 
of nothing.  Thus, this extremely improbable phenomena, the universe.
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