TH> Because once a person realizes what you just said, the next question to
 TH> ask the one I delved into a while back already. If there was ever a
 TH> point in which absolutely nothing existed, no universe, or pre-existing
 TH> Origin, then would anything ever exist? Answer was no. So, seeing as how
 TH> existence does indeed exist, then there was never a time when nothing
 TH> existed, that something has always existed - something beyond the finite
 TH> progression we live in, something beyond time, something without
 TH> beginning or end - an Origin that is truly infinite. THAT is the Origin,
 TH> and that is what brought all finite things into existence. Because
 TH> existence exists, it has always existed on some level, and therefore we
 TH> can see the logical necessity for the existence of a certain level of
 TH> existence that had no cause, because everything that is caused did not
 TH> exist at one time.
   If we assume that Time was also created along with the universe, wouldn't
logic also have been created along with all else (whatever "creation" might
mean)?  
   Could we then place much trust in "logic" outside of the "knowing" we 
ight
experience as "parts" of the larger, encompassing being?  Exploring the
existence WE experience with its constantly receding boundaries or horizons
doesn't, of any necessity, extend beyond those boundaries, does it.  
   Or, is there some question here somewhere that might have an ANSWER within
any realm of man's knowledge?  I've not experienced any.  Plato summed up 
his
situation of man in the observation that "Things divine are not for humans to
know" and St. Paul, who agreed with much of the substance of Plato in the
search for meaning in existence told us that only if there is some "then"
would we "then" be able to see wholly while "here" we can only "see as 
hrough
a dirty glass."   It may be that the experience of the "then" while "here" is
all we'll ever have but then again maybe not.  Wisdom, I think, is the
realization that NOBODY knows for sure.  Faith in THAT context can become
really meaningful since it loses its images - or certainty about the "shadows
on the wall."
Sincerely, 
                                     Frank
                                                                              
                                                       
--- PPoint 2.05
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