To: 
From: "Vern Humphrey" 
Reply-To: r_catholic-l{at}yahoogroups.com

To: Michael D Brazier [mailto:mdbrazier{at}juno.com]
> >
> > That Palestinians have no rights an Israeli must respect.
>
> The Israelis do not believe that.  The Palestinians believe that the
> Israelis believe it; but the Palestinians are wrong.

Two kids in Colorado shot up their high school.  They used bombs.  Bombs
and bomb-making materials were later found in their homes.

Were those homes bulldozed by law enforcement authorities?  Were they blown up?

Blacks in Cinncinnatti threw stones at the police.  Did the police shoot any of them?

We would say that such acts were clear and flagrant violations of human rights.

Yet that isn't the case when a Palestinian family has its home blown up for
something one member of the family has done, or when a Palestinian is shot
for throwing stones.
>
> > That they may be ruled by force,
>
> At the moment, you should recall, Israel is not ruling the
> Palestinians at all.  It is making war on them (and they are
> making war on it -- or rather murder.)  As you should also
> recall, given a just cause any state may make war.  Israel
> certainly believes that it has a just cause.

This proves the point -- when you make war on a people, rather than a
state, you brand all those people as being equally guilty, and all acts
against them are suddenly justified.
>
> > that they may be subjected to mass punishment,
>
> Whatever the basis of this is, it should be judged by the rules
> of warfare, not those of government.

The rules of warfare do not include mass punishment.
>
> > and that they may simply be edged out of the
> > West Bank and Gaza by continued building of settlements.
>
> This is something we've argued before.  We must distinguish.
> If the "edging out" happens by legal contract with the owners
> of the land, it's moral.  If it's done by force, it's not moral.

Did you see the TV clips of tanks, armored personnel carriers, helicopters
and fixed-wing aircraft?

The settlements were established by force and are maintained by force.
>
> Well, Israel is getting the international backlash anyway.  Why
> don't they simply say "might as well be hanged for a sheep as a
> lamb" and proceed?

There you have it -- just kill them all or drive them out and get it over with.

How is this different from what the Turks did to the Armenians in 1915, or
what the Serbs were recently doing to the Kosovars?

>
> > > I endeavor to hold both the Israelis and the Arabs to the same
> > > standard that I hold Americans to.  As I've already said, you
> > > cannot truly say as much.
> >
> > There, I disagree.  Do you think Americans have the right to build
> > settlements in, say Afghanistan, and crowd out the locals?
>
> Answered above.

So you WOULD think the US, having established military control over areas
of Afghanistan, could bring in American settlers and simply TAKE that land.
>
> > Would you approve the police in Cincinnatti shooting rioters for
> > throwing rocks?
>
> Another issue we've already discussed.  I answered no.

Then how is it proper to shoot Palestinians for the same thing.

Not so long ago, in another forum, someone posted an Israeli sniper site,
which showed them using a silenced Ruger 10/22 rifle -- to shoot rioters in
the legs, testicles, and so on.

If that were done to Black rioters in the US, would it improve race
relations or make them worse?
>


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