From: "Rich Gauszka" 

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There is quite a difference  between a cloned cluster of embryonic cells =
in a petri dish that could yield disease cures and  cloning a baby.  I =
see no problem with examining all lines of stem cell research.=20

In reality a good portion of this argument ( not all )  is a science vs =
religious fundamentalism issue from those who fear to "play God"

I say "let there be light"
=20

http://stemcells.nih.gov/info/faqs.asp

Human embryonic stem cells are thought to have much greater = developmental
potential than adult stem cells. This means that embryonic = stem cells may
be pluripotent-that is, able to give rise to cells found = in all tissues
of the embryo except for germ cells rather than being = merely
multipotent-restricted to specific subpopulations of cell types, = as adult
stem cells are thought to be.

There are currently several limitations to using adult stem cells. =
Although many different kinds of multipotent stem cells have been =
identified, adult stem cells that could give rise to all cell and tissue =
types have not yet been found. Adult stem cells are often present in = only
minute quantities and can therefore be difficult to isolate and = purify.
There is also evidence that they may not have the same capacity = to
multiply as embryonic stem cells do. Finally, adult stem cells may =
contain more DNA abnormalities-caused by sunlight, toxins, and errors in =
making more DNA copies during the course of a lifetime. These potential =
weaknesses might limit the usefulness of adult stem cells.


  "Gary Britt"  wrote in message =
news:4547bcbf{at}w3.nls.net...

  There is a huge difference between ban and not funding Rich.  =
Schwarzenegger arranged for 3 billion in funding in California.  Other =
countries are funding.  Private enterprise could fund it.  So the = absence
of embryonic stem cells doing anything but causing brain tumors = to date
is hardly the result of lack of trying.

  The fact is all the breakthroughs to date have come with the more =
stable and more predictable chord blood and adult stem cells.

  When people who want to play God with human embryos and want to =
proceed to develop the science for human cloning and same sex conception =
to go along with same sex marriage deliberately related stem cell = success
stories arising out of chord blood stem cells and adult stem = cells as
though these things are impacted by the non USA funded = embryonic stem
cell research are spinning or as we used to call it in = the old days
lying.

  Look how effective these lies and distortions about stems cell =
research have been with you Rich.  You are a very informed and educated =
person and their spinning on this even had you confused into thinking a =
story about chord blood stem cells had something to do with embryonic =
stem cells.

  The *real* agenda for embryonic stem cells is human cloning and same =
sex conception Rich.  They need an unfettered policy of being able to =
buy, experiment with, and destroy human embryos/babies.  It is an = affront
to the dignity of humanity, and slippery slope of literal = frankensteinish
proportions Rich.

  Gary



  Rich Gauszka wrote:=20
    Links? Talk about spinning - ban/not fund  the research and claim =
lack of breakthrough

    The White House also opposes embryonic stem cells that don't destroy =
the human embryo.=20

    =
http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/08/24/healthscience/web.0824stem.php

    Biologists have developed a technique for establishing colonies of =
human embryonic stem cells from an early human embryo without destroying =
it. This method, if confirmed in other laboratories, would seem to = remove
the principal objection to the research.


      "Gary Britt"  wrote in message =
news:454793dd{at}w3.nls.net...

      So far all the breakthroughs are on stem cells other than =
embryonic stem cells.  Embryonic stem cells have only broken through to =
cause brain tumors.  Scientists working with embryonic stem cells say = its
at least 20 years off  IF and BEFORE anything comes of the embryonic =
stuff.  Meanwhile the chord blood and adult stem cell research are =
showing real break troughs.

      If there was real potential in embryonic stem cell research it =
would be funded by private enterprise.  Their is no law against the =
research, just that the feds aren't going to fund more brain tumor =
experiments.

      Lastly the researches able to do federally funded embryonic stem =
cell research have not come close to using up the existing lines that = are
available and federally funded.

      Stop with your spinning Rich.  It isn't working.

      Gary


      Rich Gauszka wrote:=20
        Imagine the breakthroughs if Bush actually funded the research =
properly. It was only in 1998 that scientists actually succeeded in =
growing human embryonic stem cells in culture so this first President to =
fund is a red herring.=20


          "Mark"  wrote in message =
news:4546d7de$1{at}w3.nls.net...
          Bush was the first president to fund stem cell research at =
all. I guess he shouldn't have? And Gary is right, this breakthrough (if =
it even is that ultimately) has nothing to do with destroying embryos, =
rather it's a potentially solid argument for alternatives instead.
            "Rich Gauszka"  wrote in message =
news:4546d47c{at}w3.nls.net...
            Bush limited federal funds for stem cell research in 2001 to =
the limited number of stem cells created before that date. In effect = Bush
did curtail research on non-embryonic stem cells

              "Gary Britt" 
wrote in message =
news:4546d0be{at}w3.nls.net...

              Yep, it was Chord Blood stem cells NOT embryonic stem =
cells.

              From your link.   The tissue was created from blood taken =
from babies' umbilical cords just a few minutes after birth.

              There is no federal funding ban on NON-Embryonic stem cell =
research, but don't let the facts get in the way or your politics.  =
Michael J. Fox, nor any of the MSM do.



              Gary Britt wrote:=20

                Did they use EMBRYONIC stem cells?  Bush is the first =
president to approve ANY federal funding for embryonic stem cells.  He =
approved for existing cell lines.  There is no law against embyonic stem =
cell research.  If it was promising it would be funded privately.=20

                So far all that embryonic stem cell research has =
produced are brain tumors and absolutely no, zero, nada cures of = anything.=20

                There have been successes with chord blood stem cells =
and adult stem cells.  Neither of which are banned from federal funding. =


                The lefties like to quote stories about successful =
treatments from Chord blood and adult stem cell research, and then try = to
confuse readers/listeners as though that says something about = embryonic
stem cells research.=20

                Embryonic stem cell research is not banned, just not =
federally funded. This debate is about people who want money from the =
government and not about finding cures.=20

                Gary=20



                Rich Gauszka wrote:=20

                  Rush Limbaugh will now proclaim British Scientists =
evil and in league with Michael J Fox in their diabolical attempt to =
embarrass the Bushies over stem cell research.=20

                  =
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_=
id=3D413551&in_page_id=3D1770&ico=3DHomepage&icl=3DTabModule&icc=3DNEWS&c=
t=3D5=20
                  British scientists have grown the world's first =
artificial liver from stem cells in a breakthrough that will one day =
provide entire organs for transplant.=20

                  The technique that created the 'mini-liver', currently =
the size of a one pence piece, will be developed to create a full-size =
functioning liver.=20

                  Described as a 'Eureka moment' by the Newcastle =
University researchers, the tissue was created from blood taken from =
babies' umbilical cords just a few minutes after birth.=20

                  As it stands, the mini organ can be used to test new =
drugs, preventing disasters such as the recent 'Elephant Man' drug = trial.
Using lab-grown liver tissue would also reduce the number of = animal
experiments.=20

                  Within five years, pieces of artificial tissue could =
be used to repair livers damaged by injury, disease, alcohol abuse and =
paracetamol overdose=20









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There is quite a difference  between a cloned cluster of =
embryonic=20
cells in a petri dish that could yield disease cures and  cloning a =

baby.  I see no problem with examining all lines of stem cell = research.=20

 
In reality a good portion of this argument ( not all )  is a =
science=20
vs religious fundamentalism issue from those who fear to "play =
God"
 
I say "let there be
light"
 
 
http://stemcells.nih.gov/" target="new">http://stemcells.nih.gov/=">http://stemcells.nih.gov/info/faqs.asp">http://stemcells.nih.gov/=
info/faqs.asp
 
Human embryonic stem cells are thought to have much greater =
developmental=20
potential than adult stem cells. This means that embryonic stem cells = may be=20
pluripotent=97that is, able to give rise to cells found in all tissues = of the=20
embryo except for germ cells rather than being merely =
multipotent=97restricted to=20
specific subpopulations of cell types, as adult stem cells are thought = to=20
be.
 
There are currently several limitations to using adult stem cells. =
Although=20
many different kinds of multipotent stem cells have been identified, = adult stem=20
cells that could give rise to all cell and tissue types have not yet = been found.=20
Adult stem cells are often present in only minute quantities and can = therefore=20
be difficult to isolate and purify. There is also evidence that they may = not=20
have the same capacity to multiply as embryonic stem cells do. Finally, = adult=20
stem cells may contain more DNA abnormalities=97caused by sunlight, = toxins, and=20
errors in making more DNA copies during the course of a lifetime. These=20
potential weaknesses might limit the usefulness of adult stem =
cells.
 
 

  "Gary Britt" <glbNOSPAM{at}gencogDOTcom.com=">mailto:glbNOSPAM{at}gencogDOTcom.com">glbNOSPAM{at}gencogDOTcom.com=
>=20
  wrote in message news:4547bcbf{at}w3.nls.net...There=20
  is a huge difference between ban and not funding Rich.  =
Schwarzenegger=20
  arranged for 3 billion in funding in California.  Other countries =
are=20
  funding.  Private enterprise could fund it.  So the absence =
of=20
  embryonic stem cells doing anything but causing brain tumors to date =
is hardly=20
  the result of lack of trying.The fact is all the
breakthroughs =
to date=20
  have come with the more stable and more predictable chord blood and =
adult stem=20
  cells.When people who want to play God with human embryos and =
want to=20
  proceed to develop the science for human cloning and same sex =
conception to go=20
  along with same sex marriage deliberately related stem cell success =
stories=20
  arising out of chord blood stem cells and adult stem cells as though =
these=20
  things are impacted by the non USA funded embryonic stem cell research =
are=20
  spinning or as we used to call it in the old days lying.Look =
how=20
  effective these lies and distortions about stems cell research have =
been with=20
  you Rich.  You are a very informed and educated person and their =
spinning=20
  on this even had you confused into thinking a story about chord blood =
stem=20
  cells had something to do with embryonic stem
cells.The *real* =
agenda=20
  for embryonic stem cells is human cloning and same sex conception =
Rich. =20
  They need an unfettered policy of being able to buy, experiment with, =
and=20
  destroy human embryos/babies.  It is an affront to the dignity of =

  humanity, and slippery slope of literal frankensteinish proportions=20
  Rich.GaryRich
Gauszka wrote:=20
  
    
    Links? Talk about spinning - =
ban/not fund=20
     the research and claim lack of breakthrough
     
    The White House also opposes =
embryonic stem=20
    cells that don't destroy the human embryo. 
     
    http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/08/24/healthscience/web.0824stem=
..php">http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/08/24/healthscience/web.0824stem.=
php
     
    Biologists have developed a technique for establishing colonies =
of=20
    human embryonic stem cells from an early human embryo without =
destroying it.=20
    This method, if confirmed in other laboratories, would seem to =
remove the=20
    principal objection to the research.
     
     
    
      "Gary Britt" <glbNOSPAM{at}gencogDOTcom.com=">mailto:glbNOSPAM{at}gencogDOTcom.com">glbNOSPAM{at}gencogDOTcom.com=
>=20
      wrote in message news:454793dd{at}w3.nls.net...So=20
      far all the breakthroughs are on stem cells other than embryonic =
stem=20
      cells.  Embryonic stem cells have only broken through to =
cause brain=20
      tumors.  Scientists working with embryonic stem cells say its =
at=20
      least 20 years off  IF and BEFORE anything comes of the =
embryonic=20
      stuff.  Meanwhile the chord blood and adult stem cell =
research are=20
      showing real break troughs.If there was real
potential in=20
      embryonic stem cell research it would be funded by private=20
      enterprise.  Their is no law against the research, just that =
the feds=20
      aren't going to fund more brain tumor experiments.Lastly =
the=20
      researches able to do federally funded embryonic stem cell =
research have=20
      not come close to using up the existing lines that are available =
and=20
      federally funded.Stop with your spinning
Rich.  It =
isn't=20
      working.GaryRich
Gauszka wrote:=20
      
        
        

        Imagine the breakthroughs if =
Bush actually=20
        funded the research properly. It was only in 1998 that =
scientists=20
        actually succeeded in =
growing human=20
        embryonic stem cells in culture so this first President to fund =
is a red=20
        herring. 
         
         
        

          "Mark" <nomail{at}hotmail.com>">mailto:nomail{at}hotmail.com">nomail{at}hotmail.com>
=
wrote in=20
          message news:4546d7de$1{at}w3.nls.net...
          Bush was the first president =
to fund stem=20
          cell research at all. I guess he shouldn't have? And Gary is =
right,=20
          this breakthrough (if it even is that ultimately) has nothing =
to do=20
          with destroying embryos, rather it's a potentially solid =
argument for=20
          alternatives instead.
          

            "Rich Gauszka" <gauszka{at}hotmail.com>">mailto:gauszka{at}hotmail.com">gauszka{at}hotmail.com>
wrote=20
            in message news:4546d47c{at}w3.nls.net...
            Bush limited federal funds =
for stem=20
            cell research in 2001 to the=20
            limited number of stem cells created before that date. In =
effect=20
            Bush did curtail research on non-embryonic stem=20
            cells
             
            
              "Gary Britt" <glbNOSPAM{at}gencogDOTcom.com=">mailto:glbNOSPAM{at}gencogDOTcom.com">glbNOSPAM{at}gencogDOTcom.com=
>=20
              wrote in message news:4546d0be{at}w3.nls.net...Yep,=20
              it was Chord Blood stem cells NOT embryonic stem=20
              cells.From your link.  
The tissue =
was=20
              created from blood taken from babies' umbilical cords just =
a few=20
              minutes after birth.There is no federal =
funding ban on=20
              NON-Embryonic stem cell research, but don't let the facts =
get in=20
              the way or your politics.  Michael J. Fox, nor any of =
the MSM=20
              do.Gary Britt wrote:=20
              
Did=20
                they use EMBRYONIC stem cells?  Bush is the first =
president=20
                to approve ANY federal funding for embryonic stem =
cells. =20
                He approved for existing cell lines.  There is no =
law=20
                against embyonic stem cell research.  If it was =
promising=20
                it would be funded privately. So far all that =
embryonic=20
                stem cell research has produced are brain tumors and =
absolutely=20
                no, zero, nada cures of anything. There have =
been=20
                successes with chord blood stem cells and adult stem=20
                cells.  Neither of which are banned from federal =
funding.=20
                The lefties like to quote stories about =
successful=20
                treatments from Chord blood and adult stem cell =
research, and=20
                then try to confuse readers/listeners as though that =
says=20
                something about embryonic stem cells research. =
Embryonic=20
                stem cell research is not banned, just not federally =
funded.=20
                This debate is about people who want money from the =
government=20
                and not about finding cures. Gary =
Rich=20
                Gauszka wrote: 
                Rush Limbaugh will now =
proclaim=20
                  British Scientists evil and in league with Michael J =
Fox in=20
                  their diabolical attempt to embarrass the Bushies over =
stem=20
                  cell research. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_=
article_id=3D413551&in_page_id=3D1770&ico=3DHomepage&icl=3DTa=
bModule&icc=3DNEWS&ct=3D5">http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/=
articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=3D413551&in_page_id=3D1770&=
ico=3DHomepage&icl=3DTabModule&icc=3DNEWS&ct=3D5=20
                  British scientists have grown the world's first =
artificial=20
                  liver from stem cells in a breakthrough that will one =
day=20
                  provide entire organs for transplant. The =
technique=20
                  that created the 'mini-liver', currently the size of a =
one=20
                  pence piece, will be developed to create a full-size=20
                  functioning liver. Described as a 'Eureka =
moment' by=20
                  the Newcastle University researchers, the tissue was =
created=20
                  from blood taken from babies' umbilical cords just a =
few=20
                  minutes after birth. As it stands, the mini =
organ can=20
                  be used to test new drugs, preventing disasters such =
as the=20
                  recent 'Elephant Man' drug trial. Using lab-grown =
liver tissue=20
                  would also reduce the number of animal experiments.=20
                  Within five years, pieces of
artificial tissue =
could=20
                  be used to repair livers damaged by injury, disease, =
alcohol=20
                  abuse and paracetamol overdose=20
              =


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