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  >the ball into the wrong net day after day and nobody is teaching
  >them any differently.
Of course we are teaching them differently, Charles, we teach them how
to recognize the alphabetic principle - initial consonants, ending
consonants, middle ones, vowel sounds, blends, etc. We just may not do
it the way you were taught in school.
Have you heard of Language Experience writing? Where the teacher writes
what the children say on chart paper? S/He is modelling the writing
process. A good teacher will be asking the children about how words
start, end, etc.
When I am in Kindergarten, I do what is called a Morning Message (used
in other Primary grades, too) You start off with just about everything
written in first and just reading it to the children. (Also having them
read it with you, etc.)
As time progresses, you leave blanks in for the children to tell you
what to fill in. They also help you to spell the words. This is quite
often a standard format. you start off with a greeting. Then move on to
the date and the weather, etc. At a certain point in the year, I have
the children come up and start filling in the words themselves -
sometimes with help from their classmates. So, yes, we do talk about
spelling, reading strategies, etc.
You've also heard about how Dan does some of his teaching -
brainstorming for words that the children know that start a certain way,
etc. This is a very well known Primary teaching method used constantly
here.
 CB>DT>Your view that children will learn spelling habits that
cannot be broken
  >DT>or will be difficult to correct is not supported by the experience of
  >DT>most early childhood teachers (K-2).
CB>But my view *is* supported by virtually every intermediate teacher
  >(4-6) teacher that I know.
(Intermediate teachers here are grades 7-10, gr. 4-6 are considered
Junior teachers.)
I don't think it is so much that children learn spelling habits that
cannot be broken as the fact that they may not have learned new ones.
This may be because their teachers did not teach them or because the
child is not developmentally ready.....for some this is because those
early building blocks were not strong enough and the environment at home
does not support learning.
I work in many inner city schools and the level of writing in many
classes would make _you_ shudder. Some children do very well and can be
challenged but many you cannot even begin to push ahead.
 CB>DT>Children eventually become aware of more complex
spelling
  >DT>patterns (Usually beginning with initial sounds, then ending
  >DT>sounds, and then the stuff in the middle.)  We can see a
  >DT>_consistent_ developing pattern of spelling skills when children
  >DT>are allowed to write.
CB>I understand that you aren't a proponent of the extreme forms of
  >whole language and inventive spelling, so perhaps we're not talking
  >about the same thing.  I'm not indicating that each child has to
  >have every misspelled word corrected every time they write, but I
  >*do* believe that they ought to be getting spelling instruction and
  >that they ought to be encouraged, when writing, to use words they
  >can spell or to look up words they can't spell.  Many of the
  >children will work to the lowest acceptable standard and the higher
  >you set that bar, within reason, the more the children will do.
Dan's understanding of whole language and inventive spelling is mine.
Whether this is because the philosophy of it all has changed over the
years or not is one thing that we are often debating over in here. What
is needed to be understood, though, is that anyone who has been
instructed correctly in these methods will be doing exactly what Dan
(and I) has been telling you.
So I repeat, children DO get spelling instruction, and they ARE
encouraged to use words they can spell and look up words they can't.
They are also encouraged to try and spell things. The level at which the
children are expected to do these things depends on the grade that they
are in. After all, we wouldn't expect a five year old to look up words
in a dictionary....though some five year olds (kindergarten that is) can
look up words in a picture dictionary just as their grade one
counterparts learn to do.
BTW, I do agree with you, you do have to set high standards - according
to what CAN be expected of the individual student. What is high for one
may be low  or even impossible for another, etc. I think I wrote about
this a little to Sheila re: her daughter's experience at school.
 CB>DT>I don't think the traditional method of teaching spelling
has the best
  >DT>track record either.  In fact, the method I grew up with (and the one
  >DT>you learned in school) is not supported by research data.
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