Guy Hoelzer wrote:
 > in article c51aqv$20j5$1{at}darwin.ediacara.org, Anon. at
 > bob.ohara{at}SOD.OFF.Spammers.helsinki.fi wrote on 4/7/04 9:38 AM:
 >
 >
 >>>> I think claiming that any allele frequency changes are due to
 >>>> drift will get you laughed at (well it would do if most mildew
 >>>> biologists weren't too polite).
 >>>
 >>>
 >>> While getting laughed at would not be pleasant for me, I think it
 >>> would be far more damaging to the scientific credibility of
 >>> mildew biologists.  I don't know any personally, but you make
 >>> them sound like an unthinking lot.
 >>>
 >>
 >> How can you get drift with Ne=infinity?  We've thought about it,
 >> and some have even bee into the field and sampled midlew.
 >
 >
 > I did not know you were into mildew, Bob.
 >
In my past life, but now I've got better.  :-)

 >
 >> It's diverse, and there's a lot of it about, so Ne=infinity is a
 >> good approximation.  I think my point is that any null hypothesis
 >> has to be referenced to the species and population you're studying.
 >>
 >
 >
 > I don't think this point has any traction in this instance because...
 >
 >
 >
 >> Of course, there are other stochastic events - founder effects and
 >> bottlenecks, and these can occur (and indeed probably do have a
 >> significant effect on the populations).
 >
 >
 > ... every system exists in a spatial and temporal context that
 > invariably reduces local Ne to values that are way lower than
 > infinity (I will sarcastically add "by at least half" to further make
 > my point).  Despite evidence to the contrary from my own bathroom, I
 > will continue to argue that there is a finite amount of mildew.
 >
Actual local population sizes are huge, and there is a lot of migration
(especially early in the season).  We're talking a mild infection being
about 10 colonies (=individuals) per leaf, and there are a lot of leaves 
in a field.

Bob

-- 
Bob O'Hara

Dept. of Mathematics and Statistics
P.O. Box 4 (Yliopistonkatu 5)
FIN-00014 University of Helsinki
Finland
Telephone: +358-9-191 23743
Mobile: +358 50 599 0540
Fax:  +358-9-191 22 779
WWW:  http://www.RNI.Helsinki.FI/~boh/
Journal of Negative Results - EEB: http://www.jnr-eeb.org
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