On 02-12-98 David Martorana wrote to Day Brown... 
 DM>     ... My notion that we are at best, just a throw away tool 
 DM>     of some unknowable agenda; and at worst, of no universal meaning 
 DM>     at all, keeps me somewhat slow to search beyond the "FUN" of it. 
 DM>     My only glint of any "what can be" is if we escape from nature- 
 DM>     and that might be a deadly act! 
Well, not entirely without purpose.  What would an entertainment 
for God be worth? He gets to watch it happen don't he? All it 
costs him is the effort to maintain the virtual reality machinery 
that projects all of this into three dimensional space. Your life 
may not be worth much, but it is worth something. 
 DM>  DB> The universal birth process is more like evolution, and a natural 
 DM>  DB> life process.  And, that we are created not to fulfill the 'will' 
 DM>  DB> of God, but to fulfill our own destiny, as any mother would wish. 
 DM>   
 DM>    ........and maybe even to teach God a bit ....later on if 
 DM>    she wanted to continue her education.....! 
Well I had not considered 'educating' her, but hell: we like to 
learn don't we? why wouldn't She? 
 
 DM>  DB> Judaic/Christian God in his heaven with a host of sychophants. 
 DM>  DB> The shamanistic view was not a cosmology organized to pander 
 DM>  DB> to the sensibilities of a totalitarian government. 
 DM>   
 DM>      .....do we really have the foggiest of WHAT was then BEING 
 DM>      pandered to....? Day, you do swing across heavens of reason 
 DM>      on chariots of mild irritation!!! 
Well, beg to differ David, but I think there is pretty good data 
to support my assertion.  but the assertion deserves at least a 
post, perhaps a thread.  If you have seen my posts on Philemon, 
slavery, Epictetus, and autocracy... IF not, I will be happy to 
oblige since I found more on the issue. 
 DM>  Interesting, Carl Gustav Jung had an ancient Greek spirit guide 
 DM>  called "Philemon" who whispered many of Jung's most powerful 
 DM>  insights to him..... with even he being quoted that of knowing 
 DM>  that Freud (his once friend) had also a private "Daemon". 
Now that you mention it: I was a Jungian in 1963, and have even 
more respect for the old boy now that I have glimmered more of 
what, at the time, seemed pretty radical mysticism. I may owe him 
more than I consciously remember. 
 
 
 DM>  DB> but without the proper commands, such as 'open Sesame', the 
 DM>  DB> file remained closed with all it's treasure inviolate. 
 DM>   
 DM>      Are we here considering a first, or has this happensight 
 DM>      occurred before? I have some trouble as to whether we are 
 DM>      actualizing a before, present, or yet to be. Realizing 
 DM>      that we constrained to talk into time, I know such an answer 
 DM>      to be difficult. 
 
 DM>  DB> Someone asked me *if* we live on a holodeck, to which I ask, what 
 DM>  DB> other model they had available for me to consider?  I do not say, 
 DM>  DB> as theorists never do, that this model is the only one. But it is 
 DM>  DB> the only one I know of that fits the data so well. 
 DM>   
 DM>      ya stumped me on that one .....too much to see upon, all ... 
Shit. More!!!... 
And spoze there was a number of holodecks, some which look like 
what we think is the past, some the future, some that look normal 
to what ever passes for normal people.... 
 
Re-ALL-ity like a hall of mirrors, each mirror with it's own bits 
of distortion that emphasize some and shrink some, and where do 
you look that is not a reflection of yourself and/or something 
you think you see.  In every case, no matter where you look, you 
see combinations of order and Chaos.  Pythagoras saw the order, 
but missed the necessity of Chaos in his cosmology.  But, he may 
have been correct in trying to focus on the 'forms' which can be 
conceptualized, and thereby organized into some useful system the 
mind can get a grip on.  Coming to grips with Chaos is daunting. 
 
Some of the mirrors don't appear to have much Chaos in the image,  
and the order offers a sense of security that is very popular. IF 
you look very closely at the edges you see lines drawn that are, 
in fact, not there, and like the canals on Mars, make persistent 
mental images of compleat fabrications.  If you continue, as you 
have, to look into new directions, you will continue to see some 
forms in the new direction that enlarge your understanding of the 
stuff you thought you knew the first mirror was telling you. 
 
If you spin around looking at too many too fast, as drug addicts 
are apt to do, you loose your bearings and balance, and Chaotic 
vision is all you have left- not very reliable or useful.  
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 * OFFLINE 1.58 * Asking love for a reason to live is a bit much. 
--- Maximus 3.01
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