To: 
From: "Vern Humphrey" 
Reply-To: r_catholic-l{at}yahoogroups.com

To: seanmbrook{at}aol.com [mailto:seanmbrook{at}aol.com]
> >
> > VH> More important, there is no other explanation that makes
> sense.  People
> > who
> > KNEW him called him the Son of God and preached His resurrection.
> > > >
>  Another good point. Reminds me of how St. Paul
>  discussed in 1 Corinthians the witnesses who testified
>  to having seen the Risen Christ.  And would any of the
>  Apostles and early Christians faced violent death by
>  martyrdom if they had known Christ to be a fraud?

That's why we call it martyrdom -- "martyr" means
"witness."  We know the truth of what they taught because they
died for it.
>
> > VH> The Church has tried to bring the Gospel to Jews, Hindus,
> Protestants,
> > and
> > many others.
> > > >
>  Certainly.  And Hindus seem almost as resistant to
>  the Gospel as Islam.  Because of its caste system,
>  fatalism, and belief in reincarnation?

And because it is Western.  A great many people in the East will reject
Western values because they ARE Western values.
>
>  True re reasoned arguments.  I have attempted to point
>  out how icons are not idols by pointing out the definitive
>  statement on that issue made by the Second Council
>  of Nicaea.
>
>  But, was Adam the ancestor to ERRORS like paganism?
>  Only in the sense that his Fall opened the way to error
>  as well as sin.  And my belief is that Mohammed simply
>  copied some Jewish customs thru cultural influence.

Of course.  And the opposite explanation is also true -- many Jewish
customs and beliefs are simply their version of a general Semetic system of
customs and beliefs.
>
> > VH> How are they different from any true believer?  Try to explain to a
> > committed Clintonophile that it wasn't sex, it was perjury -- and a
> > particularly sleezy form, since he was lying in a case where he had a
> > financial interest.
> > > >
>  Iow, you cannot reason with "true believers"?  No matter
>  how false and irrational their beliefs?

That's often the case.  We make converts by ones and twos, not in wholesale
lots.  So don't waste your meagre coin on the hard cases.
> >
> > VH> No more do Berbers.  Copts are not Arabs, they are true Egyptians.
> > >
>  Correct.  Even now, they continue to preserve a form
>  of the language known by the Pharaohs.  Copts are
>  esp. deserving of admiration because of preserving
>  their Christian faith despite 14 centuries of Muslim
>  oppression or persecution.

I've been to Copic masses.  I've talked with a Coptic priest at length.
>
>  You mentioned Berbers.  I've read that some Berbers
>  in Algeria have become so disgusted with Islam (be-
>  cause of the vicious civil war there) that they have
>  begun converting to Christianity.
>
I would hope we can capitalize on that!
>


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