From: Adam Flinton 

John Beckett wrote:

> Adam Flinton  wrote in message
> news::
>
>>How do you meld  "we're the good guys" with "being
nice doesn't work"?
>>
>>Generally good guys are seen as being nice whereas Abu Ghraib style
>>events are a product of the "no more Mr Nice Guy" mindset.
>
>
> I haven't actually said "being nice doesn't work". I have
indicated that I
> don't think any amount of negotiations or concessions to AQ would help
> them settle down. They will never be nice. Even if the US converted to a
> Taliban-style government, the AQ people would be complaining that it
> wasn't sufficiently sincere.
>

Possibly so, possibly not.


> In the message you're commenting on, I was just saying that IF the US
> decides it's a great idea to invade/liberate Iraq, surely even the dullest
> member of the government or miilitary could see that some amount of "being
> nice" to the locals would be a really good idea.
>

Yeah but often invading another country is seen as "per se" not very nice.

> I am astonished at the brutality of the practices at Abu Ghraib, but I am
> more astonished at the stupidity of those organising the fiasco.

I am not astonished at either & was wondering when stuff would start coming out.

It was obvious for some time in advance that it was going on & it was
just a matter of proof (given no American would trust a beardy araby
darkish person & what he said esp not over their own fine, upstanding
clean shaven mil/intel boys & girls).

You knew it was happening in places like bagram because I posted news wrt
captives "dying in custody from blunt instrument trauma". But I
suppose they were only Afghans & there were no photos so...


> Also,
> what about the stupidity of whoever is supposed to audit US affairs (the
> various intelligence agencies should have predicted what fantastic
> foul-ups would cause the Iraq affair to turn into a 100 years of hell).
>

ROFL. I have been reliably informed that the UK which has a long history of
such things gave a lot of very (as it turns out) reliable predictions
& thus actions to take (e.g. keep the Iraqi army in being). This
information was actively discarded because it did not fit with the "US
troops being welcomed by singing & flowers" image which some
within the administration were pushing. What is more, even when it was
clear that the singing was muted & the flowers were not in evidence,
there was a stubborn refusal (for political reasons) not to accept reality
but to keep ploughing the same furrow towards hell.

At times I have felt very sorry for Mr Bremmer as you & I both know
that in time there will be a pol move towards having him shoulder the blame
even though it is widely known that he had significant disagreements with
Washington.

It should be pointed out that your gov did apparantly believe in the
predictions which is why ozzie troops were kept out of town in the western
desert.

The predictions were there, the question was why were they actively discarded.




Adam

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