WE> So 5000 years ago what relationship was there between mathematics and
 WE> reality? Yes there has evolved an actual relationship between humans and
 WE> mathematics.  As humans have differing opinions about reality, the
 WE> relationship between mathematics and reality is like the relationship
 WE> between humans and reality, vague, confused, indecisive. inconclusive.
 WE> ... I think, therefore the universe thinks.
   There is substantial evidence that the ancient Sumerian king lists were
precise, astronomical and mathematical calculations having less to do with 
he
impossible lengths of actual reigns than with astronomical observation.  I
suppose the romantic notion of the abysmal and savage ignorance of the
ancients simply will never die.  One wonders why, if THEY were so dumb how
WE could ever have become so smart!!  Modern plumbing was discovered at
ancient Cnossus and the steam engine was certainly available to the people of
the Hellenistic age had they wanted to use it.  After all, they DID have slot
machines.  
   Now WE'RE bellyaching about all of those "lazy" people the governments 
ust
either eliminate through euthanasia or feed and care for as a result of the
march of technology when "work" as once identified is rapidly becoming a 
hing
of the past.  What Aristotle valued as "leisure time" for the few who could
use it by living close to the "zone of pure contemplation" is now available 
o
the masses who haven't learned how to deal with it except by massive drug
overdozing or increase in the suicide rates.  Perhaps Singapore is pointing
the way toward modern adaptation to "hive" existence.   The Luddites were
never wrong in what they perceived - just wrong in imagining that such
problems have pugilistic solutions!!
   I walked through the excavations of Pompeii and Herculaneum once and could
readily imagine myself in a modern port city with one-way streets, red-light
districts, churches of one's choice and much else that is modern.  No 
elling,
really, how many times BEFORE the beginning of the "Christian" era cities had
been destroyed at that site by Vesuvius and the excavations of "hamburger
shops" and "chicken shacks" there were quite modern in the first century
A.C.E.  
Sincerely, 
                                     Frank
                                                                              
                                                       
--- PPoint 2.05
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