William Morse  wrote:

> Dr. John;
> 
> (I call you this because Dr. John is the stage name of a rock/jazz/funk
> musician that I happen to like and to congratulate you on your achievement)

Merci. Now if you have any pull with any book publishers, tell them
about this wonderful opportunity they have to publish the first
comprehensive history of the species concept...
> 
> You have been fighting a good fight on this thread 

I'm just about done, too; I have other projects to attend to and I think
I've said (squirrelled away in there somewhere) all that can be said.
Now it remains to put it into some sort of order to see if there's a
sensible paper in it.

>                                                    - I wanted to comment on
> this particular point:
> 
>  
> > But niche inheritance is more than just being in the same conditions
> > as your parental species. It is a matter of inheriting an environment
> > that has been modified. For example, elephants will generate scrubby
> > savannah in Africe by knocking down trees, which favour the selection
> > of equally large progeny (NB, we're talking within species here),
> > while pigmy elephants on (I think) Madagascar may not have modified
> > the environment in the same manner or to the same degree.
> 
> You seem to be using this argument as a counterexample to the possibility
> of species selection.  I have elsewhere argued that traits that increase
> the overall carrying capacity of the environment for the organism in 
> question are an example of selection "for the good of the species" 
> (actually I would only say for the good of the deme). I believe I can show
> how these traits will be favored even if they have a small cost for the
> individual .

Like Perplexed Jim, I'm losing track. I think all I want to say is that
merely inheriting a range doesn't count as niche inheritance. The
organisms have to make the niche, or improve it and redecorate a bit.

The pigmy versus large heffalumps example merely goes to show that
organisms cannot always modify their environment, and must sometimes
adapt to it rather than vice versa, which I am sure is massively
unsurprising a realisation.

I'd love to see your argument for group good selection (notice how
carefully I avoid species versus deme versus kin group distinction
there?)...
-- 
Dr John S. Wilkins, www.wilkins.id.au
"I never meet anyone who is not perplexed what to do with their
 children" --Charles Darwin to Syms Covington, February 22, 1857
---
þ RIMEGate(tm)/RGXPost V1.14 at BBSWORLD * Info{at}bbsworld.com

---
 * RIMEGate(tm)V10.2áÿ* RelayNet(tm) NNTP Gateway * MoonDog BBS
 * RgateImp.MoonDog.BBS at 5/14/04 5:37:43 PM