TH> Let us consider the fact that the universe has order. It operates by,
 TH> and is literally defined by the laws that we can easily observe. So,
 TH> this would indicate that the Origin also has order, because everything
 TH> has a cause - the universe and the laws that govern it had a cause.
 MR> Does Universe have order, or do only our perceptions of Universe have
If the universe had no order, then an ordered thing like a mind wouldn't
exist, along with anything else that is ordered, so there fore we couldn't
perceive much without a mind could we?
 TH> We have random behavior of matter because of inertia. Matter does not
 TH> have a mind, nor volition. It simply reacts according to whatever
 TH> forces are acting upon it, in a natural manner, all according to the
 TH> consistent (orderly) laws of physics.
 MR> Do you have arguments which establish the truth of these propositions?
 MR> (randomness from inertia, lack of mind in matter, accuracy of physical
 MR> models..) 
I don't know, do you know of any individual hydrogen atoms that would like to
join the conversation?
 TH> A deck of cards will never magically jump up and self-create a
 TH> delicate card house, nor will it do so over time. The cards will stay
 TH> there in the deck because of the orderly and consistent nature of the
 TH> laws of physics.
 MR> Do you have knowledge of all future events?  What is "magic"?  Most
Well, if you really think that a deck of cards will someday just jump up
under its own power and form a card house, then I don't beleive we have too
much more to discuss.
 MR> There are limits, according to the models generated by physicists and
 MR> others. 
 TH> Indeed, seeing as how every aspect of reality has a cause,
 MR> Disputed.
 
 TH> if the the Origin had absolutely no order at all, then order would
 TH> never have existed in our reality.
 MR> Also disputed, seems like a non-sequiter.
Do you actually have the ability to engage an issue with a little more depth
than "no". I think that the conversation is probably over, and will leave it
at that.
... Blue Wave - World Tour - 1998
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