Forwarded From Area: NetMail
Subj: KCNZ 1250 AM
From: "Carl E. Olsen"
December 9, 1996
Ron Corbett on
KCNZ 1250 AM
721 Shirley Street
Cedar Falls, IA 50613
319-277-1918
PART 1
HOST: Well, good Monday morning to you. Three minutes after 8 o'clock.
Welcome to the show. Local talk radio on the air here in Waterloo and Cedar
Falls and around eastern Iowa. I hope you had a great weekend and enjoyed
the big win by the UNI men's football team Saturday night. That was a
squeaker. And another squeaker Sunday. The UNI women's basketball team won
by just one point over Iowa State. So a big upset there for the women.
Congratulations to both teams. Well, this morning on our local talk show,
remember you can always get in on the show by calling 277-1918 or
1-800-913-9479, the topic this morning - the legalization of marijuana for
medicinal purposes. All right, we heard about it, it's been in the news
because of a recent decision in California that has allowed that, or paved
the way to allow it. And we're going to talk about that, and also talk
about any movement here in the State of Iowa to do the same type of thing -
legalize marijuana for medicinal purposes. And joining me now on the
program first is Ron Corbett. Mr. Corbett is a Republican from Cedar
Rapids, House Speaker. And Mr. Corbett, welcome to the program this morning.
CORBETT: Thank you, and good morning.
HOST: Good morning. Now, you have come out, even before the session,
nothing's really been said. The session starts what in January?
CORBETT: January 13, yes.
HOST: So you're about ready to go back to work then?
CORBETT: Yeah, we are.
HOST: That job, anyway.
CORBETT: Yep.
HOST: Ron, now you've come out before this session and talked against
the legalization of marijuana for medicinal purposes. Tell me why you've
come out and made that public announcement.
CORBETT: Sure. Well there's several reasons. You know, first of all,
not just voters in California, but the voters in Arizona, have passed, you
know, a referendum on the ballot this last November, and so we've had this
renewed debate as far as marijuana goes. Now in both those states they were
referendums. There's going to be an attempt in other states that allow
referendums in future elections. Iowa is not a state that allows for
referendums, so the decisions would have to be made by the state
legislature, the Iowa House and the Iowa Senate. A week ago, Republicans
got together and put together their list of items that we wanted to
accomplish next year and we also made a list of things that we weren't going
to take up and this was an issue that we decided that we did not want to
take up. There is a small lobbying group, and organization for this in the
state of Iowa, but at least from what I understand with the Arizona and the
California that it's such a broad definition "medical use" that we'd have a
real hard time. Where do you draw the line? I mean, today stress is a
medical term, and so someone feels they're a little stressed out at work.
You know, do they go home? Do they pick up a bag of marijuana and tell the,
you know, tell their doctor or primary care giver that they're stressed out
and the need to have this? So, it isn't something that... You know, people
say, well that would never happen. I mean, it's a pretty broad term and
definition, and so we decided we do not want to tackle this next year.
HOST: Um hum. In your mind, in your feelings, if the definition could
be narrowed down to not included all people or all medical reasons, is it
something at that point you'd be in favor of?
CORBETT: Well, I still don't think so. I know, the fact that this
notion that marijuana has demonstrated medical, you know, utility, has been
rejected by the American Medical Association, the National Multiple
Sclerosis Society, the American Glaucoma Society, the American Academy of
Ophthalmology, and the American Cancer Society. So, you know, they've
debated this in their organizations and, you know, they felt that there
isn't, you know, a reason. They're, you know, as far as some of these
things with chemotherapy, you know, the nausea, etc., there are other drugs
that have been shown to be more successful first line therapy drugs for
nausea and vomiting, you know, versus marijuana or synthetic THC, which is
actually the ingredient within marijuana that the advocates say is helpful.
HOST: Um hum. Apparently, several groups have okayed the use, or said
that it does provide for some medical useage. There have been, you know,
the American Bar Association, and even the Iowa Democratic Party, has come
out and said that, you know, it does show that there are some uses for it,
even though some of the groups that you mention don't approve it.
CORBETT: As you know, that's going to be the case. I mean, people are
going to line up on both sides of the issue. Each side is going to throw
out a study, you know, we can, I can quote different studies from different
doctors and colleges around the country that say there's no evidence for
marijuana usage in areas and I suppose the other side can show us some
studies, too, but, you know, it, when you have President Clinton's national
drug czar, Barry McCaffrey, coming out, you know, this is, you know, his
quote, you know, just when the nation is trying it's hardest to educate
teenagers not to use, you know, drugs, now they're being told that marijuana
and other drugs are good. You know, that they're medicine. That it's okay,
and so the national drug czar, Iowa's drug czar, is against it, and, you
know, this whole coalition of, you know, drug-free coalition, you know,
D.A.R.E. programs, all the different programs that we have out there that
have recognized that drugs are bad and the war on drugs that we've been
having, certainly marijuana's considered a gateway drug to other drugs.
HOST: Now, when you mention that the topic won't come up this year, and
that the Republican leaders have met on this, now, let's explain, that's
because the Republican Party does control the House and Senate in Iowa, and
you guys pretty much set the agenda. Is that not right?
CORBETT: Yeah. The Republicans control the House, we've done that now
for three elections cycles, but this year the Republicans were successful,
Republican candidates in the Senate were successful in getting the majority,
so now we have a Republican majority in both the House and the Senate. And,
of course, Governor Branstad is a Republican, so this is the first time in
fourteen years where the Republican have had control of the Legislature.
But, even as far as this, that the medical use, I mean, we still have, you
know, in the California intiative, it allowed for, you know, cultivation for
growers, you know, it allowed for possession, even if you're not sick. I
mean, you're going to develop a whole, you know, if you're going to try and
create an additional supply, or additional demand for marijuana, you're
going to have, you know, suppliers that are out there. So you're going to
have people now growing and possessing. And just imagine the field day, you
know, attorneys can have in court when it comes to our laws, you know, you
can say, well I was just delivering this bag to, you know, a friend of mine
who, you know, has AIDS and they need to use, they need to use this to help
them out, and so I think, in the court of law, having these broad
definitions, as it relates to the referendums in Arizona and California, is,
it's going to be a nightmare in the court system.
HOST: Well, how about the people that would use the drug for medicinal
purposes and actually would have a need for it and who believe that it does
help them? What would you say to them?
CORBETT: Yeah. I have to give some type of credibility to some studies
that have shown, you know, like, I don't have AIDS and haven't had cancer,
so I haven't had the, you know, that option before me, but apparently with
some of the people they do feel that it's been helpful to them. But, it
isn't a treatment for the disease. I mean, that's one thing that has to be
clear. It isn't a treatment for the disease, it's supposedly to relieve
some of the pain and suffering, but there are other drugs. I think you've
got two different, you've got people that actually can benefit from it that
are kind of used, being used as props. I'm not so sure that the people that
have been backing these referendums, this movement around the country, have
a larger goal in mind, the outright legalization of all drugs. And if you
follow the money trail, in politics there's money, the pro-legalization
folks spent over, you know, two million dollars on this referendum, and the
anti folks barely had fourty, fifty thousand bucks. And so, there's a lot
of money behind this, the marketing, and so, you know, I certainly feel
sorry for any of those people who find themselves in that position, but I'm
not so sure they're not being used as props for a larger cause.
HOST: Well, Mr. Corbett, we're going to hear from one of those people
here in just a bit. And, we're going to have you stay on the phone. Okay?
CORBETT: Sure.
HOST: Alright. Rob Corbett of Cedar Rapids, a Republican and House
Speaker of the Iowa House, on his feelings as to why marijuana shouldn't be
legalized in the state of Iowa for medicinal purposes. And up next, we'll
talk to one of those patients who says it does him good. Stay tuned. Local
talk radio on KCNZ.
PART 2
HOST: Welcome back to the program. Jim Coloff this morning, filling in
for Greg Allen. He is ill today. He'll be back tomorrow morning, but we've
got a great topic this morning, and some good discussion that will be going
on here I imagine. The topic today, the legalization of marijuana for
medical usage. We heard from Mr. Ron Corbett of Cedar Rapids who is against
the issue and he's House Speaker. They'll probably not be talking about it
in the state Legislature, it sounds like. But, an individual here in the
studio from Waterloo who would probably like to see it talked about and
actually see it passed, Allen Helmers of Waterloo. Good morning Allen.
HELMERS: Good morning.
COLOFF: Thanks for coming in this morning. Now, you are an advocate of
medical use of marijuana because you are a participant in that.
HELMERS: Yes. I've been arrested and am awaiting further court action.
I suffer from chronic pain syndrome and fibromyalgia. The two diseases are
not going to go away. They can only be treated, there's no cure. Nothing
is going to make it go away.
COLOFF: So your doctors have told you that they've done everything they
can and to diminish this pain that they say they're helpless?
HELMERS: They keep continuing to use me and other patients in my
position as a chemical experiment, in my view of it. I just came off of
another one last week. I had to spend a week at home from Thanksgiving
'till last Wednesday, before I could even leave the house from being so sick
from chemical medication that I was given. That certainly is not being able
to function in this world.
COLOFF: Right. Now how long have you suffered from this disease?
HELMERS: I've known and been diagnosed with fibromyalgia since the 1976.
COLOFF: Okay. And at what point...?
HELMERS: Excuse me. 1986.
COLOFF: Okay, 1986. So about ten years. And at what point did you
really start having the greatest symptoms and the most pain?
HELMERS: It came on quite a few years before that, but I had a multiple
broken back in 1981 in a semi roll over accident and it never went away.
They couldn't ever take the pain and I believe that was the onset of it.
COLOFF: So, the doctors think that's what kind of brought it on?
HELMERS: The trauma of that accident.
COLOFF: So, it's nothing that you've done yourself in your life to spur
this disease? Some people would say, well maybe AIDS, people live that
lifestyle, but with you it was an accident, a semi accident.
HELMERS: Right, it was a semi accident. And then, two and a half years
ago, I was ran over by a drunk driver and broke my leg in twelve or thirteen
places, and my bottom three vertebrae in my back.
COLOFF: Well, that didn't help at all either?
HELMERS: And now I've got a leg an inch shorter than the other and it
just turned into a nightmare. I mean a physical nightmare. I thought was
bad before, and it continues to worsen.
COLOFF: Now, explain to me the pain that you suffer. You know, I've
never had a debilitating disease, so it might be hard for me to understand
the pain, but tell me about this pain.
HELMERS: Fibromyalgia is a rheumatoid disease of the muscles and soft
tissues, ligaments, tendons. It travels around the body. It has very many
other effects that, symptoms and things that are with it. A loss of,
dropping things, a loss of concentration, word mix ups, there's a lot of
psychological things. A lot of other physical problems. You can't stand to
be touched. Different clothing you can't wear. The symptoms go on and on
of what is caused from fibromyalgia. They haven't found a cure, they
haven't found a cause. All they can do is try and make you as comfortable
and lead the most productive life you can, and the only way to do that is
some sort of drugs to ease the pain. There's a great deal of sleep
disturbance with it, which increases the pain. Any time you overdo
physically, you pay for it really bad the next morning.
COLOFF: Well, tell me how marijuana has helped you, or that it could
help you, in being treated or for this pain, at least to cope with the pain.
HELMERS: It does help me, it very much takes the muscle spasms away,
which is probably the most debilitating part of the disease. And then the
anxiety, because you're never sure if your body is going to be there for you
or not. So, people are very anxious that have this disease. They're not
sure if they're going to get through the day, or what. Now, marijuana, and
any other drug, can and are abused. I'm not talking about drug abuse here,
I'm talking about drug use, the use, what it takes, and you're able to
function. Going out and doing what little I can is certainly better than
sitting home and wasting away.
COLFOFF: Okay. Allen Helmers, our guest from Waterloo. An advocate of
the medicinal use of marijuana. And, Rob Corbett also on the line. We're
going to bring him back in this next segment and talk to both gentlemen, and
find out more from Allen Helmers about the, marijuana actually does work
according to some studies. So stay tuned for that. Local talk radio on
KCNZ. We'll take a break for a CNBC business report.
PART 3
COLOFF: Good morning. Local talk radio on the air on KCNZ, your
information station. You're going to have a chance to get in on the
discussion, if you'd like to. We're going to open up the phone lines here
in just a bit. 277-1918 or 1-800-913-9479. We're talking about the
medicinal use of marijuana, not for a drug, but maybe for medicinal usage.
Is that possible? We're talking with Allen Helmers. He suffers from a
disease that causes great pain, and he says marijuana will help him. Is it
possible to have marijuana available to only patients like yourself?
HELMERS: There are currently still eight patients alive in America on
the, there's a compassionate users program, and that was begun in the '70s.
I think there was 15 when George Bush stopped it in 1992, right before he
was voted out of office, two of which live in Iowa, George McMahon which
has, he has nail patella syndrome, and Barbara Douglass who suffers from
multiple sclerosis. So, we do have two of those patients left in Iowa.
That program is no longer in effect, but the people still do get marijuana
from the federal government and claim to get excellent results from it.
COLOFF: Uh hum. Now, you mentioned that there are, for your disease and
your condition, you said there are 300 other people in northeast Iowa?
HELMERS: There is approximately 300 that come to the support group at
Covenant Medical Center from time to time who are members of it. I'm not
saying they all come every month.
COLOFF: So, if marijuana was legalized, would all 300 of these people,
would it be available to them?
HELMERS: I very much doubt that it would work for all of them. The
problem is, what works for Jane doesn't work for Allen. What works for
Allen doesn't work for Jane. We found that out through our group discussion
that, there's no way I could say that it would work for everyone. It does
work for me, and I do know several other people who have claimed results
that they have not gotten from chemical drugs or any other therapy that they
hadn't felt in over ten years. I guess I'm responsible, because they read
my article in the paper and tried it.
COLOFF: Uh hum. Now, how would we know that someone was being honest?
If they said, well the drug is working, rather than just saying that so they
could have more marijuana legally to smoke?
HELMERS: That's a problem. Drugs are abused. Morphine is probably
snitched from a grandpa who has cancer, by the kid, or teenager, or
whatever. Any drug can be abused. The point I'd like to make came out of
an editorial shortly after the election on the 11th of November in the Des
Moines Register. Just one line out of that, outlawing use of certain drugs
for any purpose simply because they are favorites on the illegal market
means we are letting street criminals dictate our drug policy, while forcing
some who suffer from desperate illnesses to pay the price. I believe that
says most of it right there.
COLOFF: Uh hum. Mr. Corbett has been gracious enough to stay on the
line with us and allow Mr. Helmers to have his say. Ron, we're going to
bring you back up now. Mr. Corbett is a Republican from Cedar Rapids. He's
the House Speaker. And a group of Republicans who say they don't want to
see this come up or be enacted in Iowa. Ron, is it true that we're allowing
drug dealers to dictate our legislation?
CORBETT: Well, if you want to take that one step further, if you want
to take that editorial one step further, then just advocate legalizing all
drugs then, if that's the case, because that's what's being done right now
on the street. The problem here is that both sides can argue that there are
studies proving one way or the other. So, rather than saying who's right
and who's wrong on this, let's look at how broad this thing is. And, it may
work for Mr. Helmers. I mean, he just admitted that it doesn't work for
everyone. Well, that's what the law says. The law says we can't
specifically say only Mr. Helmers can use it, but Mr. Doe can't, because it
doesn't work for him. The laws have to be crafted in a way they apply to
everyone and anyone. So, I mean, these things are so broad...
HELMERS: But, there is not a chemical drug that works for everyone.
CORBETT: Well, I'm just saying that when you legalize marijuana this
first step, you're heading down the slippery slope. And you're so broad.
Where do you draw the line? Where do you say, well, only for these people
that are...
HELMERS: We have to draw the line with the truth. It's time for the
truth to be out.
CORBETT: So, you would want it, you have...
HELMERS: I don't want marijuana on the street. I want it legalized
under medical supervision. And, I'm not saying that somebody coming in with
a sneeze and get marijuana. That's not right. I'm saying that under a
qualified medical doctor.
CORBETT: Well, that's how broad these referendums in California...
HELMERS: Well, those laws need some tuning. And the people that wrote
them have even admitted that. I read that in the paper last week also.
CORBETT: And, today, if you look at what caregiver means, what, you
know, people think doctor, they think of M.D., but that isn't the case. I
mean we have a lot of health care providers and professionals that are
recognized as being that. Whether it's a nurses aid, a chiropractor, a
massage therapist, an M.D. The list is broad, so anyone can be really
classified as a primary caregiver without having the M.D. behind their name,
so that aspect of it, as far as being prescribed. I just think that
between, whether it be prescribed by some health care professional, or who
uses it, it's so broad, the definition is so, I think you have too much case
for abuse. And, hey, one of the great things about having fifty states is
that some states can try some stuff to see how it works. In two or three
years from now we'll see. We'll have an ongoing study from Arizona and from
California.
HELMERS: There's been many studies already that for some reason the
politicians would wish to discredit or ignore completely, and Holland has
been legal for quite a while and I guess it's the most pleasant place to be.
CORBETT: I've never been there. Have you?
HELMERS: No, but I know many people who go there, to enjoy absolute
freedom. They do treat people with marijuana over there. The information
is there. When the DEA can block the AMA from scientific studies, because
they will not allow the different grades of marijuana to be imported into
this country, we're letting our police practice the medicine in this
country, and that's not right.
COLOFF: Now, Allen, Mr. Corbett makes the point that if we legalize it
for a few, how can we not allow it to go to all people, or have people just
come in, like you said, with a little pain and they say they need this
marijuana? Now to be, honestly, have you had anyone come up to you, who
they know that you're in this and that you're fighting for this, have you
had anyone come up to you and say, hey, this is great because if this is
passed maybe I can get some marijuana, too? I don't need it but, boy, this
would kind of open the door. Have you had anyone pressure you at all?
HELMERS: I've had lost of people say, oh yeah, it great man, everyone's
going to have it then, and that's not what we're after. We're after
doctor's supervision. I wish that I would have brought my bucket of empty
pill bottles. It's not that they have not tried everything on the shelf
pretty near. That's not the problem. The problem is the marijuana works
where the chemicals are not, and I can't deny that fact.
CORBETT: Well, what you're after, Mr. Helmers, is fine, but the
unintended consequences of people coming up and using it for whatever
reason, being picked up for carrying a commercial quantity of marijuana
going into court saying, well, this is just for medicinal purposes, I'm a
supplier, whatever. I mean, you might as well throw all of our drug
enforcement laws out the window if you're going to start, if you're going to
go down this road. I just don't see how you can do it with the safeguards.
HELMERS: How do we continue to use cocaine and morphine then, through
our medical community? I don't really see the difference, myself.
CORBETT: Tell me how you...
HELMERS: They're both very abused on the street.
CORBETT: Tell me how you keep this from being abused by your local
reefer head.
COLOFF: Mr. Helmers?
HELMERS: It always has been. Now, how are you going to stop it?
CORBETT: Well,...
HELMERS: I'm telling you that you shouldn't be locking people up simply
because they are chronically and critically ill.
CORBETT: And those that aren't?
HELMERS: The reefer head, has he tried all the different pills, has he
went through all these different doctors and medical treatment? We're
talking about oranges and apples. We're not talking about street people.
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End ot N/men, I believe. Both
of you seem to be assuming, and saying even, that this drug, this marijuana,
will be given by, quote, a bunch of different caregivers. Why not handle it
as other dangerous drugs are, by strictly a physician's prescription, with
that physician's number? And, not all physicians can even write
prescriptions for certain scheduled drugs. Wouldn't that take care of a lot
of the problems you two are talking about?
HELMERS: That's what we are advocating.
COLOFF: Mr. Corbett? Did you hear the comment?
Yeah, and that's what people in California and Arizona thought they were
voting for, and that wasn't the case. I mean...
M.B.: Well, why not, you're a better legislator than that bunch in
California. Surely, you folks in Des Moines can come up with a straight
forward. Why not handle it like codeine? You can't go down and buy
codeine. You need a prescription. Even for tylenol and codeine combined.
HELMERS: And, they do plan on changing that law in California. Even
the people who wrote that referendum understand that that was written too
broadly.
M.B.: You people wouldn't make that mistake in Des Moines.
HELMERS: Well, I'd hope not, because Jim...
M.B.: Why not give it a shot, and simple say, a physician, on his
medical judgment, signed, sealed and delivered in a prescription? That
takes care of codeine. There aren't too many cases of opium or codeine
running around, for the reason that you can only get it by prescription from
a physician who can write prescriptions for scheduled drugs. I'll hang up
and listen to you guys.
CORBETT: Well, I'd ask, why has the American Medical Association, the
American Glaucoma Society, the American Academy of Ophthalmology, and the
American Cancer Society passed resolutions saying that they don't, there's
no demonstrated medical use for marijuana? I mean, here we're arguing
whether we should have it for medicinal purposes or not, but there are
people prior to that debate that say there are no medicinal purposes.
COLOFF: Okay, Mr. Corbett. We're going to take a break here, we've got
to break. And, we'll be back. And, when we come back, another caller
called in didn't want to go on the air. But, wanted to ask Mr. Helmers, and
I'll let him think about this during our break, that if he would support,
or, would you support legislation for crack cocaine, or for heroin? And, he
wanted to know where the line would be drawn. So I'll let you think about
that during the break. And, we'll be back with more on local talk radio
after this. If you'd like to get in on the show, 277-1918 or 1-800-913-9479.
***********************************************************************
* Carl E. Olsen * carl@commonlink.net *
* Post Office Box 4091 * NORML News archived at: *
* Des Moines, Iowa 50333 * http://www.calyx.com/~olsen/ *
* (515) 262-6957 voice & fax * http://www.commonlink.com/~olsen/ *
***********************************************************************
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* Origin: Who's Askin'? (1:17/75)
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