Rod, at 10:19 on Feb 27 1996, you wrote to Bill Grimsley...

BG> (and hundreds of V.32bis callers) who connect with no problems whatsoever,

RS> Yeah, yeah, heard this line before Bill. YOU claimed that the handshaking
RS> problem you saw when calling a Spirit had never ever been seen with
RS> anything but a Spirit.

Which was quite true.  But at V.32bis speeds only, not V.34.

RS> Now its seen when you call a Netcon M34F too.

Not at V.32bis though Rod, only V.34.  Spot the difference yet?

BG> the evidence would clearly suggest that the problem lies
BG> in the old V.32bis Supra's implementation of that protocol.

RS> Soorree, you dont have the evidence to substantiate that, 

And you have no evidence to suggest otherwise.  Snap!

RS> PARTICULARLY when it never has any problem calling Sportsters and doesnt 
RS> when the V32terbo is disabled in the Courier too. When we KNOW that 
RS> V32terbo is a kludge, its hardly surprising we see some warts with the wide
RS> variety of V32bis modems out there in the field when its introduced.

So?  I'm not suggesting that the Courier isn't somehow fooling the Supra
into thinking it's a V.32ter connect, only that NOBODY else has so far
reported anything even remotely similar to your Supra's problem.

RS> I said it CAN bite, it clearly can Bill.

BG> It apparently only bites with YOUR old Supra modem.

RS> Crap, Maestros have problem calling Thunders too. 

Try "one maestro" (singular).  That was Dieter's, wasn't it?

RS> Its also interesting that the Supra has NO problem whatever
RS> with the rather less kludgy approaches like VFC and V34. Which
RS> both happen to have the session negotiation stuff done properly.

No V.8 on originate, no V.34.  The modems then perform a standard V.32bis
negotiation, as expected.  Nothing surprising about that at all.

RS> Kludges can bite. Thats no news whatever.

BG> As you wish.  They sure haven't bitten me though.

RS> Hardly very surprising that USR ensured that there was no visible glitch
RS> when the V32terbo capable Couriers were called by Sportsters Bill.

Nor any other DOCUMENTED V.32ter retrain problems with anything other than
YOUR Supra, and until such time as you can provide evidence to the
contrary, you'll forgive me if I continue to attribute the blame to your
Supra.

Regards, Bill

--- Msgedsq/2 3.20