In article ,
Jim McGinn  wrote:
>joe{at}removethispart.gs.washington.edu (Joe Felsenstein) wrote in message
>> 
>> Oh here we go again.  There have been many debates on this newsgroup
>> about the logic of kin selection, between McGinn and many others.
>> McGinn is convinced he has refuted the logic of Hamilton's rules for
>> kin selection.
>
>Reality refutes the "logic" of Hamilton's rules for kin selection. 
>(I'm just the messenger.)

Sadly, the message is understood by no one here (other than McGinn), as
McGinn refuses to give a simple example (a model that behaves differently
than Hamilton's Rule).

>> In a posting of 26 October 2002 I put forward a list of assumptions
>> which I hoped to use to demonstrate that in a simple model, Hamilton's
>> rule could be derived.
>
>Derived?  

Yes, as soon as McGinn accepted the premises as suitable for a simple
model system, I would go to show that Hamilton's Rule can be derived from
them.  Derived, under the assumptions.  But McGinn never accepted the
assumptions of that model, or stated his own model.

>> Is there anyone else out there who thinks McGinn has shown that Hamilton's
>> result is invalid?  If so, do they have some model situation that
>> could help us understand the logic of that objection?"
>> 
>> Silence.  No one agreed, even tentatively, with McGinn's assertions.  
>
>As I recall nobody could dispute my assertions.  

That's a funny way to describe a lack of response when I made a request for
anyone who agreed with McGinn to explain his logic!

>And if they don't I hope they will keep it brief and to the point.

In the interests of this much-cherished brevity: if we could see McGinn's
model we could see whether it worked.  If we can't, we can't.

-- 
Joe Felsenstein         joe{at}removethispart.gs.washington.edu
 Department of Genome Sciences and Department of Biology,
 University of Washington, Box 357730, Seattle, WA 98195-7730 USA
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