From: "Richard Schwartz" 
To: "ATM List" 
Reply-To: "Richard Schwartz" 


I will add to Vladimir's comments something that you should have gotten
from John Dobson:
"There is no mistake you can make in mirror making that will condemn
you to eternal woe for the rest of our life.  Even if you break the glass,
there is another piece of glass out there somewhere with your name on
it."

Do you think that in mirror making, unlike music performance, sex, and
computer programming, everything will go perfect the very first time?   You
are given a brain so that you can learn from your mistakes, reach
conclusions, and avoid those mistakes in the future.   Sometimes this leads
you into conflict with "authority".  If that happens, keep your
thoughts secret, pretend to bow to authority, but go back to YOUR way the
minute you are out of their view.   To publish your findings, create a fake
name
account in some web mail service, and post to the ATM list so the authority
you fear will never find out who dares to think, to question, to
experiment, to conclude, to contradict.

. . . Richard

----- Original Message -----
From: "Vladimir Galogaza" 
To: "ATM shore" 
Sent: Friday, December 20, 2002 5:14 AM Subject: Re: ATM HELP! mirror
making crossroads


>
> David,
>
> If it is true that the mirror has so wide "edge" than you
might consider
> that it was never finished .
>  If that is so you are only continuing on the project.
> You said that it takes you six months to regain your composure.
> As it seems to me, and from your questionnaire, you are bound to
> another disappointment if you will not radically change your approach.
This
> is reaction to the sentence:"Last summet I took a telescope making class
> from John Dodbson. A not
> entrirely pleasurable experience. "
>
> If you do not understand what you are doing, no amount of authority
> can save you from yourself. You read good books and
> work with good people and falsely think that this suffice to protect you
> from
> mistakes.  You may not blame neither the books or person alone.
>
> If you left  your instructor to measure focal length  FOR you ,or if you
> like,
> INSTEAD of you,  than you are maybe right that he made mistake.
>  But you made it also and much more important one.
> You did not check on his measurements which you should, not in order to
> question authority
> but to see if you understand what he learned you by duplicating (or not)
his
> measurement.
>
> Richard Schwartz, "authority on antiauthority"   wrote a lot on this
> subject for our list.
>
>
> Some are in need for advices from gurus to be led by hand blindly  and
some
> to
> confirm their own conclusions. It is up to you to choose.
>
> From your letter I see that you are inclined to follow the second path
> which is optimistic development and kind of warranty for success
> and satisfaction.
>
> I consider what I said up to now is the most important advice in
> this case and hope that you will appreciate it. But there are some other:
>
> >I will need to remove the pitch and begin grinding anew.
>
> Spare your polishing tool for polishing reground mirror.
> It can be later modified ,  to the new  f/6 curve.
>
> Make new tile tool and regrind the mirror to sphere to the very edge
> before starting polishing.
>
> >My suspicion is that the curve never made its way out there in
> >rough grinding.
>
> You should be able to see this immediately by simple Sharpie test, and
later
> at polishing by KE and Ronchi test. You do not mention testing.
> Have you done it and how?
> I will sugest before doing anything at all to make a good KE and Ronchi
test
> and find out what kind of surface you have got.
>
> Measure the ROC while grinding with spherometer, template, or other method
> while keeping sphericity until you are at required f number but do not
> insist on 6.000 because Richard will get you.
>
> From your present sagita of 2.5 mm you have to dig additional
>   0.8 mm for f/6 ( approximately). You may do that with finer than 80
grit.
>
> >I really don't think that fine grinding could have made such an impact on
> >the curve...particularly because I was sooooo careful in fine grinding of
> >not going over the edge of the mirror with the tool.
>
> Going over the edge with a tool is not uncarefulness, it is part of the
> usual procedure. Because you did not,  it may cause  this edge problem.
> Regarding possible impact of the fine grinding on the curve, it suffice to
> say that  figuring usualy starts from polished sphere and is done  by
> POLISHING.
>  So grinding with any size grit can have considerable impact on curve.
>  Do not fool yourself. We are speaking in terms of wavelengths.
>
> >This is based on the tremendously sucky reading I got off the star test.
>
> How you did your collimation? Is your mirror coated?
>
> >. I took the advice of someone who either has diminished visual acuity or
> >diminished faculties.That is over ...............
>
> How can you tell that it is over? What makes you so sure about it?
>
> Starting with 12.5" mirror is not easy task. That you have made some
> mistakes could be expected, but you have made it to the complete scope
which
> is great
> achievement. Your decision to make it even better is also great. I wish
you
> all success in this.
> Have a happy New Year.
>
>
> Regards
> Vladimir.
>
>
>
>
>
>

--- BBBS/NT v4.00 MP