++> On Feb. 5/98 Day Brown wrote to
 ++> David Martorana on "Smaller Absurdities"
 
 DB> Nonsense? Indeed, that vast majority of the dreams and
 DB> visions in a shaman mind full of interesting alkaloids
 DB> are, as you suggest, nonsense.  But... there are a few
 DB> ideas which, on further sober cogitation later,... reveal
 DB> truth.
 
     We could push this "kinda concludin" around some!
     How do we capture and contain those true "few ideas"
     into a "meaning package" or even hint that there is any
     meaning. How ??? ....being some specific?
 
 DB> And truth has a habit of persisting in the mind, and tends
 
     TRUTH ??? ....."same concludin" into myth does NOT translate
     into truth, it just translates into "same concluding". Much
     of mythic similarity is likely the outgrowth of similar
     circumstantial experiences to dream and project from (this
     convenience of daydreaming, ENHANCED or natural or even a
     mite genetic, has no claim to truth beyond accident)   Also
     most myths are NOT the same without a great deal of massage
     and bending!  Even Cambell had to admit an oft closure of
     one eye to see the similarities. Many myths from around the
     world & through time don't match AT ALL!
 
 DB> to be seen in subsequent generations of minds similarly
 DB> affected which come to the same conclusion.  Campbell's
 DB> mythology books show the similarity of conception across
 DB> several millennia and thousands of miles between cultural
 DB> sites.
 
     Campbell was enormous fun to listen to. Went through the
     whole series twice. I've not yet actually read his books.
 
 DB> One of my arguments supporting the existence of God is the
 DB> fact that virtually all of the famous ancient philosophers
 DB> said that God existed.
 
     They also thought the world was flat!
 
 DB> Either they were *all* wrong, or the idea is.
 
     I'm MOST surprised that YOU would conclude such an absolute
     "mutual-ish exclusion" in our fragile circumstance of near
     not knowing all. It is **VERY** unlike your regular open stance.
     I would assume it either a late night slip ??? or a different
     of your insights I'd not been formerly introduced to. You enjoy
     some broad logical swings, often making my own appear almost as
     normal strides .
 
 DB> A decent respect for the cognative powers of these, and the shamen
 DB> trying to make sense of their experiences seems reasonable.
 
     It feels mind-pleasant to make sense of experience and I do
     seek out and respect any such efforts. I'm just a bit less
     trusting than you that mind-pleasance translates into actual knowing
     ...though I would agree it can be satisfying at practical working
     levels!
 
     
 DB> Well, it is not only a private reality David.  Nor, were all of
 DB> the ideas concepts of sublime understanding.  The Greeks usta do
 DB> some wondering where ideas came from, seeing how useful they are.
 DB> There usta be the idea that the Muses could be encouraged by the
 DB> use of drugs, and the explosion of rock music with drugs seems to
 DB> bear this out, as well as the behavior of artists to push limits
 DB> ever further in pursuit of the Muse... sometimes fatally.
 
     You present the option of a private flotilla of juiced insights to
     quest from. I would not define any better carrier task force
     to launch observation planes.  A bit more land bound, I prefer
     runways that don't bob up and down so much.....
 
 DB> But consider the Chalcolithic culture which had many psychedelic
 DB> mushrooms as sacred altar ware, and what practical ideas arose at
 DB> the same time the culture flowered: fired pottery, bronze, draft
 DB> animals, the wheel, and woven cloth... *all* were developed by an
 DB> ancient Aryan bunch of stoners.
 
     I think to blame culture fragments on academic mushrooms, is really
     a stretch ......but what the hell, with your Aryan/Semitic/toadstool
     merger, anything is possible!!! .....and your approaches as good OR
     BETTER than most other truffle probes.
 
 DB> Well I give you this David: that the solitary experience, whether
 DB> drugs or deprevation, or whatever was used, was still valuable as
 DB> a means of confronting the reality of the 'self' without feedback
 DB> from the group always making the determination.
 
     .........YES! "valuable"...... also interesting and fun!!!
     I am a believer in the solitary experience, not so apparent
     from my chiding attitude.
 
     Day! We differ primarily on "goads of motivation" and favorite
     "measuring sticks" ....you, bent gently, by juice-to-truth,
     and me, bent gently, to "know for pleasure", both our bends,
     close ""ENOUGH"" that negotiation is possible from time to
     time!  .........I like the way you think even when I'm wrong.
 
                          _\????/_
     ...acid & hedonism     oooo  ...  Dave
     ...and truth ? WOW !  < <
--- Maximus/2 3.01
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