From: "Mark" 


"John Cuccia"  wrote in message
news:ut1dp2thj7gj9l4t9kt6m1fc7p10371p9i{at}4ax.com...
> On Fri, 29 Dec 2006 23:54:51 -0500, "Mark"
 wrote:
>
>>Talk to your representative on that count John, they overwhelmingly
>>authorized the Iraq war, on the basis of many (at least 17 as I recall)
>>counts -- all but one of which are handily ignored these days.
>
> A nice bit of revisionism there.  The warmongers *overwhelmingly*
> emphasized the fact that Saddam had WMDs (and that we knew exactly
> where they were), that Saddam had links to bin Laden and AQ, and that
> Iraq proposed a grave and gathering threat to the United States.  All
> three of those propositions have been proven wrong by events.

Speaking of revisionist!

> The other primary reason for the overthrow was the utopian neocon
> vision of Iraq as a democratic ally in the Mid-East, a vision that
> could only have been conceived by those ignorant of the history of the
> region.  That was a pipe dream too.

Eh, I don't recall anyone saying that then. The idea was more to shake
things up by giving 25 million people their freedom and hope for uprisings
in Syria and Iran as a result -- those "hopes" were dashed when
half of America decided that it was wrong to shake things up and started
undermining our efforts -- better to have tyrant induced stability like we
had for the last 50 years and propagate a few more 9/11s, than to provide
hope and dreams for the oppressed, right? Better all the citizens of the
middle-east eat dirt (and buy into the propaganda that it's all America's
and Israel's fault that they're suffering) than share in the oil revenues
of their oppressors, right?

>
> What's left?  Come on, you have at least 13 other reasons for the
> invasion.  What were they?

They were there all along John, your representatives voted for all of them,
I think it's more like 21 reasons (I was thinking of the useless UN
resolutions) but you can count them up yourself here (although this is such
an old argument that it's petrified wood at this point):
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/10/20021002-2.html

I do understand that you'll have to go dig up a Senate or Congress url to
re-read it, 'cause if it's on a Bush url it must be a lie. So have at it.

>>Now that Saddam is dead, let us hope that things improve; let us hope that
>>the recently elected majority here in the US continue to shy away from the
>>"cut and run" platform they used to gain power.
>
> While you Pollyannas continue to "hope that things improve", they are
> demonstrably getting worse, and at an increasing rate.   Further, you
> again fail to grasp the obvious: Saddam became irrelevant to the
> outcome of events in Iraq as soon as his government was overthrown.
> From that point on, the Shi'ite majority in Iraq, and, by extension,
> their representatives in Iran, had all the power.

He became irrelevant only after he died. Do you understand that he was a
murderous tyrant that ruled with an iron fist for almost 4 decades? Do you
realize that means that no one in Iraq under the age of 50 can remember any
other way of life? Hell, even Phil was sure, damn sure, that Saddam would
be placed back in power and he never had to live under the boot like they
did, and you think his being dead means nothing to them? It means, rather,
that they now are sure that he'll never be back. Hell, I had to go find the
full video showing his death to be sure myself and I didn't live under his
boot either.

>>And on a less confrontational note, I truly wish you and all here, a great
>>2007
>
> Same to you and yours, and all the other good folk of Barktopia.
>
>>I hope that the world will be better a year from now
>
> I see no chance of that happening.  Things in the Mid-East are going
> to get much, much worse in the coming year.  We'll be lucky if the war
> hasn't spread throughout the region by the end of the year.

Perhaps you're right. But the change had to come, the status quo was not
viable -- so if not better in '07 in all ways, the agents of change are
there for a better world in the long-term, there is no other way. We cannot
keep on keeping on with tyrants, it's not right. Saudi Arabia in its
current form has to go too, how I'm not sure, but it has to happen,
otherwise we're pissing in the wind.

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