Gord Hannah,

14-Jan-04 09:11:45, Gord Hannah wrote to Tony Frew
 GH> 13-Jan-04 19:23:28, Danny Ceppa wrote to Tony Frew
 GH>           Subject: Registration Features

 TF>>> Termail I still use but AIRI Bo B didn't write TERMAIL.

 DC>> I thought he wrote both.

 GH> If my memory serves Bo indeed did write Termail, if I am wrong Andy
 GH> will correct me.

Bo did the final compilation of both Terminate and TerMail.  There are
parts of both that he did not write.  For instance if you have a fairly
slow machine and watch closely as you start TerMail, you may see a notice
that the tosser gives credit to someone else.

Bo had several "agreements" with other programmers to use some of their
code and/or integrate some of their prgms.  He also implemented some
ideas and code provided by some of the Alpha/Beta/Gamma testers, with or
without their agreement.  In at least 1 instance an Alpha tester left
over that issue, although I don't think there was clear proof of any
illegal activity, nor even a suggestion of such.

Now don't blow this out of proportion.  "Borrowing" source code and
integrating other's prgms has been going on since long before Microsoft
existed.  And from what I have seen, Bo never even came close to the
questionable ethical activity that M$ has.  Bo always had at least a
working communication with any other programmers who's work was used in
Terminate and TerMail.  English was not Bo's native language, and there
may have been some misunderstandings by some.  And there may have been
some who thought they deserved more $ or œ than they got.  And since
AFAIK Bo's father was a solicitor (lawyer in American terms), Bo was
shrewd on both legal and financial matters.  Yet neither Bo nor anyone
else involved in the development of Terminate got rich on Terminate
alone, and some of us didn't even break even financially.  It was common
knowledge among the testers, that what we would get out of it was the use
of the improvements.

The major problem from my perspective as far as source code was
concerned, was that some portions written by others was a little over
Bo's head, so that fixes and patches and improvements were nearly
impossible.  Even some parts Bo did write eventually became so complex
that they were hard to work on, given the amount of integration, without
causing new problems in associated parts of the overall compilation.

After Bo stopped development, several wondered if they could get the
source code to allow some other programmer to continue development.  IMO
that will never happen.  The reason being that those working "agreements"
for SC and prgms, from other programmers mentioned above, were exclusive
with Bo.  It would take more work to separate out what Bo wrote, from
what someone else wrote, than it would be worth.

 TF>>> I mostly sit here waiting for Bo to do something. I have to say that

 GH> Terminate is abandoned was just after the release of V5.

Development was stopped then.  I imagine financial obligations (mostly
debts a little income) continued and were passed around long after that.
Steve Stacher became the "administrator", so he would know more about
that.

 TF>>> I have had my moneys worth.

That is a very good perspective.  And I agree with you.

 TF>>> After all I'm still using Termail and my
 TF>>> computer has changed from a 386 to an AMD2000+ in the intervening
 TF>>> time.

 GH> As a tester both Alpha and Beta, there are some of us with very deep
 GH> resentments toward Bo, which we wont get into here.

I just rack it up to "a learning experience" and don't hold a grudge.
But I'll never stick my neck out that far (as a distributor) again.  And
even as a tester I don't allow myself to become so personally "touched"
by any other prgm.  I do feel I learned some things which I still apply
with coordinating other programmers and testers, in order to avoid
problems.

Maybe we were all young and bold back when Terminate was an infant.

 GH> Ver4&5 were one of the most extensive tested products.  Ver 4 I
 GH> think went on for 9 months, ver 5 for about a year.

A lot of that time was just waiting for Bo to get back to work.  He
developed some problems sticking with it, which resulted in him
forgetting where he left off, by the time he picked it up again, even in
the middle of testing some of the later versions.

 GH> There is one bug that I had hoped that would be cured and that is
 GH> the infamous last character drop in some messages,

I have a work-around for that, which I'm using at this very moment.  I
have a batch file which I use to swap in and out TM.CFG.4 TM.CFG.5
TM.EXE.4 TM.EXE.5 since TerMail v.4 did not have that bug.  The only
problem that causes me is there is no automatic line wrap formatting with
V.4, so I do that manually with EZQuote editor.

 GH> had that been cured I would never have went to Timed or even looked
 GH> at Golded.

I guess I got too old to learn new tricks and keep looking for better
alternatives.  Many years ago I decided with both TerMail and AdeptXBBS,
that if for any reason I lost it all, and could not restore a backup,
that I would not go to the effort to re-install from scratch and do all
the configuration again.  That would mean the end of Fidonet for me.

Quite honestly there is little chance of that.  But I go through phases
of interest.  Internet Mailing Lists have replaced much of what once was
only available in Fidonet.  And over the years I have even stopped
reading most of the Mailing Lists I subscribe too.  And at the beginning
of this year, I don't regularly read even the 1 Mailing List I liked the
most, partly because it has recently become over crowded.

To me a computer is a tool and toy box.  And prgms are just various tools
and toys in that box.  As long as my interest is held and I feel I am
getting my moneys worth, I continue with what I've been doing all along.
TerMail still serves a purpose for me, so I continue to use it.

Now if anyone learns how to hack the computer prgms for the 2004 Toyota
Prius, then they will have my undivided attention.  

                 Thanks and Good Luck,        Andy Roberts

--- Terminate 4.00/Pro*at