Jim Menegay  wrote or quoted:
> Tim Tyler  wrote in message
news:...
> > Perplexed in Peoria  wrote or quoted:

> > > The correct lesson to take from the "new group selection"
> > > is that groups have a role ONLY IF they are ephemeral and if the
> > > organisms in those groups do most of their breeding outside the
> > > group.
> > 
> > It's not clear what your distinction is here :-|

[...]

> > I don't think I've even heard of some sort of "new group
selection"
> > that depends for its existence on outbreeding.  What is all that
> > about?
> 
> Basically, I was referring to forms of "group selection" based on the
> Price equations and on D. S. Wilson's "trait group selection".  These
> forms of "group selection" do not seem to conform to Ridley's 
> definition, though they do involve selection acting on (or through)
> groups.

I still can't see how your original capitilised section applies - i.e.
how outbreeding and groups being ephemeral help with Wilson's flavour
of group selection.

>From the rest of your post this looks like a reference to Hamliton's
references 3-5 on p. 195 of v.1 of "Narrow Roads" relating to xenophobia.

> See for example the discussion in Narrow Roads V1 starting on p188.

Alas, only a teaser - and I can't access the references - and so am unable 
to evaluate the idea.

> Or, check the first paragraph of this:
> http://www2.unil.ch/izea/people/PDF/nperrin9.pdf

The abstract reads like double-talk to me - but the first paragraph
of the body of the paper is coherent and seems to make sense.

> However, I may be missing some subtlety here.  I have still not read the
> papers of Queller, Wilson et al, and Taylor that are referenced by
> Hamilton and Perrin.  So, if someone has read those papers, and can
> correct my misunderstanding, I would appreciate it.

Group selection - AKA differential reproductive success of groups
of organisms - depends on variation between groups.  I'm hard pressed
to think how outbreeding is going to help it.  Outbreeding tends to 
destroy variation between groups, and acts to remove or reduce the 
heritable differences which selection could act to select between.
-- 
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