>>> Todd Henson on Order 
 TH> Once a person can understand that the uninverse is infinite, and that
 TH> the cause of the universe, which for simplicity's sake I will call the
 TH> Origin, is something which is without beginning and without end, we
 TH> can take our understanding of cause and effect and examine the order of
 TH> the universe.
Your 'Origin' is not the big bang origin.
 TH> Let us consider the fact that the universe has order. It operates by,
 TH> and is literally defined by the laws that we can easily observe. So,
 TH> this would indicate that the Origin also has order, because everything
 TH> has a cause - the universe and the laws that govern it had a cause.
In the first instances of the big bang, it is conjectured that the laws of 
physics did not yet apply.
 TH> Some will say that order quite often comes out of the disorder of
 TH> chaotic systems and would deny my claims. But, the limited amount of
 TH> seemingly ordered behavior that sometimes comes from seemingly
 TH> disordely sources is not a case of order from disorder at all. The
 TH> behavior of an ordered pattern emerging out of disorder is a phenomenon
 TH> that is governed by the *ordered* laws of physics which govern the
 TH> behavior of the universe in the first place. 
I think that order and disorder are perceptions of our mind.
Of interest to your theme is the notion of self organizing systems.
 TH> Indeed, seeing as how every aspect of reality has a cause, if the the
 TH> Origin had absolutely no order at all, then order would never have
 TH> existed in our reality. 
Wish I knew more about self organizing systems, I'd be able to run this 
conjecture thru some interesting hoops.  As it is I can apply some fish 
swallowing it's tail paradoxes from math.
The Origin is the cause of the universe.  The Origin is an aspect of reality. 
 So the Origin has a cause.  But this is a puzzle, how something that never 
had a beginning can be caused.
 TH> The ordered phenomenon of this universe came from
 TH> the ordered nature of the pre-existing infinite Origin. 
How does the big bang scenario fit into this.  Is there anything to be 
inferred by capitalizing the infinite Origin?  Is 'the Big Bang' current 
usage?
... I think, therefore the universe thinks.
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