In a msg to David Bloomberg on , Bob King of 
3:770/115.16@fidonet writes:
 >>  JS> Of these thousands, I also believe that those with a high degree of
 >>  JS> technology probably are humanoid in appearence.
 >> Why?
 BK>  Why not?
Why?
 >  JS> It's hard to explain, but it's best chalked up to vanity and my own
 >  JS> religious beliefs.
 > Not really a good basis for rational scientific discussion.
 BK>  Why isn't it?
Because religious BELIEF has nothing to do with SCIENTIFIC discussion.  It 
seems pretty straightforward.
 BK> Most of our 'scientists' have their vision clouded by their beliefs.
Really?  And you can prove this claim, of course?  
 >> So why do you spend time speculating about things you don't believe to be
 >> true?  Why do you encourage others to do such things rather than 
 >> explaining to them why the things they are saying are not correct?  Why 
do 
 >> you act so non-skeptical while you claim here that you are, essentially, 
a 
 >> skeptic (not that I actually believe it, mind you)?
 BK>  Why do millions of people speculate on beliefs they cannot 
 BK> substantiate under the guise of religion?
Beats the heck outta me.  :-)
 >  JS> I'm simply not prepared to accept the presence of aliens without
 >  JS> stronger evidence than has yet been provided--same as you. As to
 >  JS> why I "spend my time" speculating, I do it because it's fun.
 > Did it ever occur to you that your "fun" could hurt
 > somebody else?  Think Heaven's Gate, for one example.
 BK>  If you are going to blame one or another persons ideas and beliefs 
 BK> for what others may or may not do then you are going to have to 
 BK> rewrite history.
Huh?  I wasn't blaming Jack, specifically, for Heaven's Gate.  But, as James 
Randi once said (on Dateline NBC, actually), "It's a dangerous thing to 
believe in nonsense."
 >  JS> ...To bring the "truth" to us like some fundamentalist knocking on my
 >  JS> door? That is the impression I get from some skeptics.
 > Then, as you often do, you have gotten the wrong impression.  Skeptics 
don't 
 > bring "The Truth." Indeed, we QUESTION claims to The Truth.  We bring
 > rationality, critical thinking, and science -- some things that are sorely 
 > lacking in the UFO arena.
 BK>  Skeptics bring doubt and alternatives into the debates.  Often though 
 BK> there is no more rationality, critical thinking or science in their 
 BK> arguements.
Tarring a bunch of skeptics with this one brush doesn't help any, Bob.  IF 
you see a skeptic doing something like that, then please point it out.  I 
know that I certainly always try to bring rationality, critical thinking, and 
science into debates on these topics.
 BK> If it is lacking in this echo then perhaps, as you may well already 
 BK> do, you should get into some of the 'scientific echos' and see how 
 BK> much of the above applies to them just as much as it does here.
The name of an echo often has little to do with how the people behave in it.  
For example, the SCIENCE echo was, for a long time, infested with people who 
just wanted to discuss religion.  Therefore, several of us created the 
SCI&TECH echo, where such discussions are not allowed.  Even so, there will 
still always be people who think and argue unscientifically, even in a 
scientific type of echo.  When you bring the paranormal into it, as in this 
echo and many others like it, it only gets worse.
 BK>  Scientists are often so wrapped up in their own convoluted ideas they 
 BK> cannot even see common sense let alone be rational.
Again you are attacking scientists as a whole, but without any specific 
examples.  Certainly scientists are human, and therefore not perfect.  But 
that doesn't mean you can just ignore them based on a generalization like the 
one you have here.
--- msgedsq 2.0.5
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