Salutatio Day!
02-Feb-98, Day Brown wrote to Richard Meic
          Subject: Race & IQ
 RM>> There are so many factors here that a conclusion either way is
 RM>> unjustified.  This is why I personally default to no difference
 RM>> in the average intelligence between races.
 DB> You may in fact be correct Richard; I think we agree that the data
 DB> on the subject is so politically challenging that truth will be
 DB> impossible to come by.
Good then this part is settled.
 RM>> Let me just point out one more time that American liberals and
 RM>> conservatives are not the same as Canadian liberals and
 RM>> conservatives.  When you say "liberal", what definition are you
 RM>> using?                   
 
 DB> As defined by the fundies; I will accept the more perjorative in
 DB> use here, as well as accept the perjorative view of fundamentalist
 DB> Christian conservatives. I am neither; I am Machiavellian.
Read carefully, Day , I need the definition you are using.  What you 
have stated tells me nothing.
 RM>> Citizens or not, ALL humans (indeed all living creatures) deserve
 RM>> equal rights.          
 
 DB> No problem with that.
Good.
 DB>> Now if you wanna restrict citizenship to only those who can pass
 DB>> a literacy test, I have no problem with that.
 RM>> So "the land of milk and honey" is ONLY for the (so called)
 RM>> smart?  If this is what you mean, then I find the idea rather
 RM>> discusting,... freedom is for ALL.
 DB> Many enlightened societies sterilize the seriously retarded. Do
 DB> you think they should have the freedom 'ALL' others enjoy?  
     
Of course, they are living creatures and they deserve no less.
 DB> Do you
 DB> have a problem if some nation decides to remove these people from
 DB> the gene pool so as to be a little more competitive in the global
 DB> free market?  If they do have a right to sterilize, how smart does
 DB> a citizen have to be to retain the right to progeny?  
     
It has nothing to do with intelligence, it has a lot to do with 
"freedom", something the US has touted many times but seems to fail
utterly in practice.
 DB> And do the
 DB> progeny have a right to competent parenting?  If I, for one, were
 DB> given the opportunity to raise a family in a nation that only
 DB> allowed in citizens who could pass a test on the works of
 DB> Machaivelli and Plato, I would expect that nation to be very well
 DB> educated, have very high job skills, and be positioned very
 DB> competitively for the global 21st century economy.  Furthermore, I
 DB> can see where such a nation would have low crime rates, well
 DB> ordered schools, and educated electorate much less gullible with
 DB> far fewer demagogues in government, and how this would appeal to
 DB> the global financial community as a good place to invest in the
 DB> highest paid technologies.  You may, as many do, value cultural
 DB> diversity; but I do not see why those who would be willing to
 DB> trade that for an experiment in a well defined cultural set of
 DB> values don't have a right to try.
 
It looks like you are thinking of "utopia", which is impossible to 
achieve.  If you want utopia, "freedom" must come with it or it is not 
utopia.
 Dicere...
 email address (vrmeic@spots.ab.ca)
Richard Meic
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