MB> MB> KK> Actually, the creationist assertion that Venus is the likeliest
MB> MB> KK> place to look for life is simply a strawman.  Mars is easily the
MB> MB> KK> best choice, followed perhaps by Jupiter's moon Europa.
MB> MB> From my perspective here on Earth, Mars is a has-been, Earth is the
MB> MB> celebrity, and Venus is up and coming.  And I'm _not_ a 
reationist".
MB> KK> You are of course welcome to your perspective, but NASA has to think
MB> KK> in terms of a 10- to 20-year time frame, and must focus on those
MB> KK> places where life is likeliest to occur or have occurred.
MB> Marvelous.  So..............  watsyerpoint?
See above.
My speculating has little
MB> to do with NASA, and what they do is fine and dandy - but they are not
MB> speculating, they are exploring and performing scientific research.  So
MB> what has that to do with it?
It's about money, really, and the fact that one thing that fascinates
most of us is the idea of life elsewhere.
MB>                            Oh, you want me to follow along with the
MB> interjective of what the "best choice" is for looking for life.  And
MB> for purely convenience-sake, Mars is best (because we can already land
MB> there, and it's close), and Jupiter's moon Europa, but aren't you
MB> forgetting Cassini?  It will fly-by Venus on its way to Saturn and the
MB> close-up of Titan, with lander and everything.
Yeah, I can never keep all those outer moons straight.
MB>                                             But the most _likely_
MB> place to look to find out _how life began_ is in none of those places.
MB> The most likely place to find out how life began is on Venus, because
I'm sure planetary geologists would agree that Venus is well worth
studying, because the more they learn about the other planets, the
more they understand about Earth.
MB> the same conditions exist there _now_ that existed here on Earth 5
MB> billion years ago, atmospheric pressure et al., chemical attributes of
MB> the atmosphere et al.  There's no doubt that Earth's life matrix
MB> _happened_, and it happened in a Venusian atmosphere, with Venusian
MB> atmospheric pressure, right here where you are breathing the excretions
MB> of quadrillions of long-gone bacteria.
I think it would be more accurate to say that Earth's greenhouse
period was _similar_ to what's happening at Venus right now.
Earth was farther away from the Sun, the atmospheric pressures
were probably lower, and temps were probably lower too.  And at
some point plenty of liquid water was present here.
MB>                                      And that's why one won't find
MB> life on Mars, and one won't find how life began on Mars - not in a
MB> trillion years.
Non sequitur.  During Mars's volcanic period, it probably had an
atmosphere worthy of the name and a lot of surface water.  Both
seem necessary for life as we know it.  So Mars looks like the
most cost-effective place to look for evidence of present or past
life.
But there is the chance of actually _seeing_ the
MB> beginning of life somewhere - watching it happen before our collective
Except that the surface temp is high enough to melt lead.  Water is
necessary.  And the willingness to wait a few hundred million years.
But Venus is of course well worth studying, if only because of the
snapshot it gives of an early period in Earth's formation.
MB> eyes - and the only place in the Universe that is handy right now is
MB> Venus, because Venus is very nearly the same as the primordial Earth,
MB> Mars isn't.  Europa isn't.  Titan isn't.  Only Venus is close.
But they may have life on them and it's a safe bet that Venus doesn't.
MB>... I wouldn't send a knight out on a dog like this.
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MB>
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