Guy Hoelzer  wrote or quoted:
> Tim Tyler at tim{at}tt1lock.org wrote on 8/8/04 3:22 PM:

> > However the definition *needs* to say something about the evolution
> > being "non-trivial".  Else we have flames and crystals to contend
> > with once again.
> 
> Crystals are easy to do away with because their dynamics have already died.
> The definition of life ought to at least imply that life is inherently
> dynamic.

Crystals have dynamic qualities.  In particular they grow and break up.

In many respects I classify crystals as a *lot* more life-like than flames 
- since there's a more obvious and capable mechanism for transimtting 
information between generations with crystals.

Crystals do template copying - and each layer of crystals inherits 
information from preceding layers.

This can be seen in two main areas - the inherited cross-section in
"needle-like" crystals: 
[e.g.: http://originoflife.net/information/graphics/kaolinite.png]
....and also in inherited repeat patterns in layer crystals such as
barium ferites and biotite micas - where layer repeat patterns of over
100 layers in thickness have been observed - indicating transmission
of information through considerable thickness of crystal.

> Flames are tougher, I think.  The logical distinction between fire and life
> leads me to think of Bak's edge of chaos idea, a viewpoint that I would not
> argue for in its entirety.  Fire is pure chaos.  It cannot evolve because it
> cannot live long enough in the deterministic realm to build a useful memory
> of its past.  Fires can grow, but they don't really develop in the sense
> that an organism develops.  I think that life requires a more conservative
> (deterministic) sort of inertia.

Flames too have an inheritance mechanism.  However perhaps not very much 
is inherited.  Small flames tend to give rise to other small flames.
blue flames tend to give rise to other blue flames - and so on.

Much of the inheritance is environmental in nature.  One common reason
flames give rise to other similar flames is because they are likely
to be buring the same fuel.

Even raindrops have inheritance - when they split their offspring
definitely share a number of their qualities.

My preferred metric for dealing with such things involves the quantity
of heritable information involved.  I would dismiss prospective organisms 
with not very much heritable information as not /really/ being alive.
-- 
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