William Morse  wrote or quoted:
> Tim Tyler  wrote in
> > William Morse  wrote or quoted:

> >> I think the definition of life has to encompass the use of fuel, but
> >> it should be something like "the ability to maintain a structure
> >> against an energy gradient by using an available energy source."
>  
> > Practically any self-organising system does that.
> > 
> > Look at a whirlpool - for example.
> 
> I disagree. Self-organising systems all maintain a structure by using an 
> available energy source, but I do not think that all that many can 
> maintain the structure against an energy gradient, at least for any 
> significant length of time. 

I believe that whirlpools do fine in that respect.  They tend to form 
wherever there are holes on a liquid-containing surface.  They are 
often quite stable - even if the surface is on a considerable tilt
(an energetic effect from a very literal gradient which tends to
disrupt their structure).

The main information preserved by such whirlpools is whether they
are rotating clockwise or anti-clockwise.
-- 
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