>Tim Tyler 

> > JE:-
> > I have described an experiment that can eliminate all
> > natural selection within an _expanding_ population 
> > only allowing genetic drift as causative to allele
> > freq. changes. All you have to do is artificially
> > force all members of one population to raise the
> > exactly the same number of fertile forms to adulthood
> > where this number is larger than just a parental
> > replacement value.  The prediction is: all natural 
> > selection must be halted within this experiment while 
> > Darwinian fitness equality can remain enforced. Thus only 
> > genetic drift (which cannot be eliminated) is now left 
> > to cause "evolution".

> TT:-
> It won't work: 
> Organisms with fatal or severely deleterious mutations will
> still be selected against - as will organisms who don't
> manage to produce any fertile offspring - despite the
> best efforts of the managers of the experiment.

JE:-
I agree that eventually selection must end the
experiment for the reason you describe. I did
mention that eventually this would happen.
However, this fact underscores rather then 
undermines what I am suggesting. My main point 
was that my definition of Darwinian fitness can
suspend Darwinian natural selection for 
enough time to allow a test of random
drift as evolution within an expanding
population. I would suggest the experiment
would be easy to do with a fecund species
like fruit flies because only a low fecundity
is required.

> TT:-
> You can't eliminate selection - all you can do is
> change the selection criteria.

JE:-
I am arguing you can suspend Darwinian
natural selection for a considerable period
within a natural population allowing a test
to refutation of the my definition of
Darwinian fitness.

> > JE:-
> > The population will deteriorate to such an
> > extent that it will become impossible to enforce
> > Darwinian fitness equality and Darwinian selection
> > will force its way into that population to
> > correct the dissolution caused by drift acting
> > alone.

> TT:-
> Yes - that sounds about right
> In practice, you can't eliminate selection.

JE:-
You can, for a finite period of time.
This is enough to test to refutation
my definition of Darwinian fitness.
Also, I argue, it will be enough to
refute the evolution by drift hypothesis
which entirely dominates evolutionary theory 
turning it into an irrefutable iron man
theory on a par with creationism.

Regards,

John Edser
Independent Researcher
PO Box 266
Church Pt
NSW 2105
Australia

edser{at}tpg.com.au
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