Grizzlie Antagonist (grizzlieantagonist{at}earthlink.net) writes:
> On Sun, 27 Feb 2005 15:35:35 -0800, Mark Borgerson
>  wrote:
>
>>In article ,
>>grizzlieantagonist{at}earthlink.net says...
>>> On 25 Feb 2005 13:46:35 -0800, "Hyerdahl"
 wrote:
>>>
>>> >connor_a{at}hotmail.com wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> Hyerdahl3 wrote:
>>> >> > >Subject: Re: You Go Girl! pushing female activity
>>> >> > >From: "Jayne Kulikauskas" momkulio{at}yahoo.ca
>>> >> > >Date: 2/2/2005 7:16 AM Pacific Standard Time
>>> >> > >Message-id: 
>>> >>
>>> >> > Girls don't really seem to care what either of
you think of their
>>> >> sports.  I mean team sports for girls are growing.  One of my
>>> >employees has a> daughter in> soccer and her
daughter is going to some
>>> >big game in Salt Lake City this next > weekend.
>>> >>
>>> >> Female sport is boring unless of course the gals wear next to
>>> >nothing.
>>> >> Jump girl, jump, weave, men in raincoats on warm sunny days!
>>> >
>>> >Well, the girls and women who participate and support these sports
>>> >don't seem to find it boring, even if you do.
>>>
>>> Who's going to pay to support them, Puke if audiences find them
>>> boring?
>>>
>>> They're playing to empty houses, aren't they?
>>>
>>> My hometown paper has completely fallen to Title IX fascism,
>>> religiously giving the women's team at the local university the same
>>> publicity that they give to the men and THEN some.
>>>
>>> Doesn't matter.  The girls don't draw.  Nobody cares to see them.
>>
>>They must be supporting the wrong sports, then.  Oregon State women's
>>gymnastics regularly draws crowds of 3000 to 4000.
>
> Shit, Borgerson, you'd line up some heavy muscular female heavyweight
> boxer, put her in a ring with Pee Wee Herman and then claim that the
> end result "proved" that women were stronger than men.

Indeed. Doesn't Big Daddy Sir Galahad Idiot Borgerseon grasp:

" The plural of 'anecdote' is NOT 'citation'. "

Were there even one professional women's sport league paying their
performers millions per year, filling 24,000-76,000 seat buildings,
and resulting in billion dollar teevee contracts, then Idiot Borgerson
might have the faintest glimmer of a point.

Absent ANY facts in that direction, he... doesn't. Just knee jerk
PCdom.

> It's that sort of tag-end feminist sucking-up that you engage in that
> have caused Andre Lieven and I to name a john mop after you.



> Gymnastics, and in particular, women's gymnastics is not even really a
> team sport, so to speak, it's a series of isolated performances by a
> number of women/girls that get tallied up and compared to each other.
>
> Even I don't object to women's gymnastics.  It's a traditionally
> feminine pursuit; it glorifies the female form; it isn't instructed in
> a lesbianizing masculinizing culture like female team sports such as
> soccer and basketball are.
>
> So gymnastics are not what Title IX feminazis such as Puke have in
> mind when using athletics as a means of making war on men and boys.
>
>>That's about
>>twice the total seating for the men's baseball team.
>
> You may not even know how right you are.  The Oregon State men's
> baseball team plays in a stadium that has about 2000 capacity; who
> knows how great their attendance would be, if they played in a stadium
> with larger capacity?

Sure.

> Are they entitled to relief under Title IX because the gymnasium that
> hosts the women's gymnastic team has twice the capacity?

Only if " equality " actually meant what it means...

>> Granted, that's only about half the attendance of your beloved
>> Fresno Grizzlies--
>
> And let's also grant that attendance figures for the OSU men's
> football team dwarf that of female gymnastics.

Or, the NFL, NBA, et al, dwarfing any viewership of female games...

>>but then OSU gymnastics is sharing a 50-year old
>>colliseum with basketball and volleyball.
>
> Why would that have a depressing effect on attendance for gymnastics?

" Old Sports Facility; Women and Children Expected To Be Most Hurt. "

> How about the fact that many of the baseball games played at Oregon
> State are played early in the year when damp weather, extremely
> prevalent in the Pacific Northwest, would certainly have a depressing
> effect on attendance?]
>
> This would not be a factor in a closed-roof gymnasium.  Is that
> another basis for giving Title IX relief to the Oregon men?

Sure.

> I don't watch women's gymnastics, but I don't watch college baseball
> either.  I don't like metal bats; I think that the "ping" sound that
> they make when striking the ball is disgusting and completely unlike
> the honest CRACK that is made when wooden bats are used.
>
> I also imagine that the use of metal bats at the NCAA level has
> probably ruined the professional prospects of a number of young
> hitters, who could not make the difficult adjustment from metal to
> wood when drafted by the pros.
>
>>How long will it
>>be before the Grizzlies pay off their new ballpark at 7000 tickets
>>per game?  (Or has attendance risen significantly with the
>>new ballpark?)
>
> 7000 tickets per game is a very respectable showing.  It is good for
> about third or fourth in the Pacific Coast League, and considering
> that the Grizzlies have not done well on the field, third or fourth
> overall in attendance is something that their owners should be
> well-satisfied with.
>
> The stadium isn't just being financed by operations; they are finding
> other ways to pay for it too, such as the installation of parking
> meters in downtown Fresno.
>
> The city fathers in Pasadena, California were able to revitalize "Old
> Town" in much the same way - I was there to witness some of it.
>
> The construction and the opening of Grizzlie Stadium is but the crown
> jewel in the pending revitalization of downtown Fresno, and I imagine
> that other sources of revenue will come pouring in.  They are about to
> open the new restored Santa Fe railroad station and rent out some
> space to private businesses.
>
> But what the hell do you care anyway?  You don't live here, and it
> isn't a concern of yours.
>
>>Perceived excellence---as reflected by national rankings has a lot
>>to do with attendance for all collegiate sports.    The Connecticutt
>>and Tennesee women's basketball teams have average attendances of
>>about 14,000.   The unranked Oregon State women's team is lucky to
>>draw 1400---even with lots of giveaway tickets.
>>
>>> Women write letters to the editor raging over poor community support
>>> and lackluster attendance at female events.
>>>
>>> Know what?  It STILL doesn't matter.
>>
>>We get the same kinds of letters about men's baseball here.  Whether it
>>matters depends on whether you are a baseball fan, I suppose.
>
> The bottom line is that, as a general rule, men's sports draw a great
> deal more spectator interest than women's sports, notwithstanding your
> attempt to pick here and pick there for exceptions.
>
> Any sport that can't support itself has no inherent "right" to exist,
> and quotas should not be used to mandate its existence.

Well, they can still play; Just not in a place where there is more
business to be done, with another game and set of players.

Andre

--
" I'm a man... But, I can change... If I have to... I guess. "
                                    The Man Prayer, Red Green.


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