To: 
From: "Steve Oostrom" 
Reply-To: trekcreative{at}yahoogroups.com

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My original comment was meant to be facetious, a little touch of humour
bro= ught about
by mention of the Village People.  Of course the seventies had some good
st= uff in it,
but what is "good stuff" is subjective.  Tastes very.  Nevertheless...

>M - [Rolls eyes.] NO accounting for taste. She was a WONDERFUL performer.
"Killing Me Softly with His Song" is a *brilliant* piece of work.
You have to have a HARD heart not to like it.

I'm only aware of three songs by Roberta Flack, "The First Time I Ever
Saw = Your Face,"
"Killing Me Softly With His Song," and "Feel Like Makin'
Love."  The middle=
 one is okay,
but the first one was slow enough to put insomniacs to sleep.  Back in
thos= e days, I
listened to the radio, collected radio charts (the curse of cheap newsprint=
 badly preserved)
and made up my own charts.  The highest she ever got on a top-ten chart was=
 number
seven.  The song did nothing for me at the time, but then I was just ten or=
 eleven.  What
can I say?

>SO - As for Firefall, is that the band I think it is?

>JM - What's the old joke? "I flunked mind-reading in school."

It's been so long since I heard about that band.  I had to check, since my
= mind was saying
"Firefly."

>They were one of the few ensembles that used flute and harmonica to effect=
,
if that helps. "You are the Woman," "Just Remember I Love
You," "Strange Way," "Cinderella,"
"Mexico," etc. They were, without question, slightly countrified
easy listening... but there's NOTHING wrong with that.

"Strange Way" is the only song from Firefall I am aware of.  My
sister real= ly liked that song,
which was a perfect excuse for me not to like it.  You know how teenage
sib= lings are.

>I also love Ambrosia, Steely Dan (*amazing* musicianship) and all the aren=
a
rock of the period (Styx, REO Speedwagon, Kansas, Journey, Toto, Rush,
etc.), so that'll give you an idea of my (questionable) inclinations.

Steely Dan, yes, they were good, and I even liked the song they came back
w= ith last year.
As for all the arena rock, sure.  Styx through Rush, have all their albums.

>SO - The Eagles were borderline, with Fleetwood Mac definitely better, but
I've got a bunch of radio charts from the seventies.

>JM - Um... I enjoy both, but the idea that Fleetwood Mac is "definitely
better" than the Eagles may be categorized as entirely subjective. Certainl= y
one may enjoy FM better, but I don't think the Eagles suffer in comparison
insofar as instrumental skill and harmonies are concerned. Linda Ronstadt
wouldn't have used them as a backup band if their talents were inferior.

Of course it is subjective.  On July 7, 1977--I remember the date well for
= obvious reasons--
I bought my first two albums after finally getting something to play vinyl
= on, "Hotel
California" by the Eagles and "Rumours" by Fleetwood Mac. 
Right from that = first night
when I played both albums, I liked "Rumours" better.  I still
have both alb= ums, although
"Rumours" is pretty scratched and worn with use, while
"Hotel California" i= s almost
pristine.  I guess my tastes just ran more towards Fleetwood Mac.  In that = time
period, I was very interested in music, and talked to people about it a lot= .  Their
consensus was that Fleetwood Mac was better, at least on that pair of album= s
.
>And if you've ever heard Buckingham/Nicks, you might not be so quick to
lionize them. ;-)

I just go by what I hear on the albums.  Their background, their private
li= ves, and nowadays,
their videos (not that I watch videos, and haven't since the mid- to late
e= ighties) and
other details don't matter.  I judge them only by the music.  I don't
lioni= ze anybody.
Given a choice between the Eagles and Fleetwood Mac, I would listen to the = latter
(personal confession, "Go Your Own Way" is my favourite song from
the Seven= ties).

>SO - Three-quarters of the songs on those charts are forgotten now.  Don't
forget disco and the beginnings of punk rock.

>JM - I enjoy some of both. While some may sniff and condemn my *pedestrian=
*
tastes, I prefer to think of my perspective as more eclectic and open-minded.

Some disco is okay, virtually all punk rock sucks (then again, the Sex Pist= ols are
punk rock, the Clash are not in my books).  I'm not condemning anybody's ta= stes.
We all have our "pedestrian" tastes.  I like Celine Dion, for
some reason. =
 I wonder
what the music store clerk must've thought when I bought the new Celine Dio= n
and new Evanescence CD's at the same time?

>And is there an era in popular music wherefrom more than quarter of the
songs are fondly remembered by most?

Actually, the radio station of my youth, 1050 CHUM, is now an oldies
statio= n.  On their
website are all of their old songs.  I seem to remember hearing more of the=
 songs
from the sixties than the seventies.  That may be the effect of listening t= o oldies
music at times, and the fact that there were more bands putting out more mu= sic
in the seventies, giving mediocre one-hit-wonder bands their chance at
fift= een minutes
of game
.
>SO - A lot of these examples are American-centric as well, which
significantly reduces their impact outside of the United States.

>JM - Well, when Canada starts exporting its culture en masse, I'll give yo=
u
a more informed opinion. Until then, well... Ameri-centrism is
*reality*----whether the French, Iranians, Canadians or, frankly, Americans
like it or not. American culture is the most important (or at least the mos= t
influential) in the world, right now, and was already making *massive*
inroads in the 70's.

Not as massive as you think.  Now it is very massive, and in the seventies,=
 the influence
was there, but it was not as massive as you think.  Not all of those Americ= an bands
scoring hits in the States did likewise in Canada.  Those Firefall songs
yo= u mentioned,
not all were hits in Canada.  And Canada has exported some culture (you did=
 mention
Rush in your arena-rock list; they're Canadian), although not to the extent=
 of the
United States.  American domination is extreme in the visual media (motion = pictures
and television), but less so in other areas, like music.  American
dominati= on in cultural
industries is extreme because this is America's largest export and they
agg= ressively
promote and distribute their cultural products. They market it very well. 
= It does not
dominate because it is the *best* culture out there.

I think we're getting a little off-topic here.

Steve
The Universe Unbounded.

Visit "Star Trek: Athena" at http://ussathena.iwarp.com


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My original comment was meant to
be facetious, a
little touch of humour brought about
by mention of the Village
People.  Of course
the seventies had some good stuff in it,
but what is "good stuff"
is subjective. 
Tastes very.  Nevertheless...
 
>M - [Rolls eyes.] NO accounting for taste. She was a WONDERFUL
performer."Killing Me Softly with His Song" is a
*brilliant* piece of work. You haveto have a HARD heart not to
like it.
I'm only aware of three songs by
Roberta Flack,
"The First Time I Ever Saw Your Face,"
"Killing Me Softly With His
Song," and "Feel Like
Makin' Love."  The middle one is okay,
but the first one was slow enough to put
insomniacs
to sleep.  Back in those days, I
listened to the radio, collected
radio charts (the
curse of cheap newsprint badly preserved)
and made up my own
charts.  The highest she
ever got on a top-ten chart was number
seven.  The song did
nothing for me at the
time, but then I was just ten or eleven.  What
can I
say?
>SO - As for Firefall, is that the band I think
it is?
>JM - What's the old joke? "I flunked
mind-reading in
school."
 
It's been so long since I heard about that
band.  I had to check, since my mind was saying
"Firefly."
>They were one of the few ensembles that used
flute and harmonica
to
effect,if that helps. "You are the Woman," "Just
Remember I Love You," "StrangeWay,"
"Cinderella," "Mexico," etc. They were, without
question, slightlycountrified easy listening... but there's
NOTHING wrong with that.
"Strange Way" is the
only song from Firefall I am
aware of.  My sister really liked that song,
which was a perfect excuse for me
not to like
it.  You know how teenage siblings
are.
>I also love Ambrosia, Steely Dan (*amazing*
musicianship) and all
the arenarock of the period (Styx, REO Speedwagon, Kansas,
Journey, Toto, Rush,etc.), so that'll give you an idea of my
(questionable) inclinations.
Steely Dan, yes, they were good,
and I even liked
the song they came back with last year.
As for all the arena rock,
sure.  Styx
through
Rush, have all their albums.
 
>SO - The Eagles were borderline, with Fleetwood Mac
definitely better,
butI've got a bunch of radio charts from the
seventies.>JM - Um... I enjoy both, but the idea
that Fleetwood Mac is "definitelybetter" than the
Eagles may be categorized as entirely subjective. Certainlyone
may enjoy FM better, but I don't think the Eagles suffer in
comparisoninsofar as
instrumental skill and harmonies are concerned. Linda
Ronstadtwouldn't have used them as a backup band if their talents
were inferior.
Of course it is
subjective.  On July 7,
1977--I remember the date well for obvious reasons--
I bought my first two albums after
finally getting
something to play vinyl on, "Hotel
California" by the Eagles and
"Rumours" by
Fleetwood Mac.  Right from that first night
when I played both albums, I liked
"Rumours"
better.  I still have both albums, although
"Rumours" is pretty
scratched and worn with use,
while "Hotel California" is almost
pristine.  I guess my
tastes just ran more
towards Fleetwood Mac.  In that time
period, I was very interested in
music, and talked
to people about it a lot.  Their
consensus was that Fleetwood Mac
was better, at
least on that pair of albums
.>And if you've ever heard
Buckingham/Nicks, you might not be so quick tolionize them.
;-)
I just go by what I hear
on the albums. 
Their background, their private lives, and nowadays,
their videos (not that I watch
videos, and haven't
since the mid- to late eighties) and
other details don't
matter.  I judge them
only
by the music.  I don't lionize anybody.
Given a choice between the Eagles
and Fleetwood
Mac, I would listen to the latter
(personal confession, "Go
Your Own Way" is my
favourite song from the Seventies).
>SO - Three-quarters of the songs on those
charts are forgotten
now.  Don'tforget disco and the beginnings of punk
rock.>JM
- I enjoy some of both. While some may sniff and condemn my
*pedestrian*tastes, I prefer to think of my perspective as more eclectic
andopen-minded.
Some disco is okay, virtually all
punk rock sucks
(then again, the Sex Pistols are
punk rock, the Clash are not in my
books). 
I'm not condemning anybody's tastes.
We all have our
"pedestrian" tastes.  I like
Celine Dion, for some reason.  I wonder
what the music store clerk must've
thought when I
bought the new Celine Dion
and new Evanescence CD's
at the same
time?
>And is there an era in popular music wherefrom
more than quarter
of
thesongs are fondly remembered by most?
Actually, the radio station of my
youth, 1050
CHUM,
is now an oldies station.  On their
website are all of their old
songs.  I seem
to
remember hearing more of the songs
from the sixties than the
seventies.  That
may
be the effect of listening to oldies
music at times, and the fact that
there were more
bands putting out more music
in the seventies, giving mediocre
one-hit-wonder
bands their chance at fifteen minutes
of game
.>SO
- A lot of these examples are
American-centric as well, whichsignificantly reduces their impact
outside of
the United States.>JM - Well, when Canada starts
exporting its culture en masse, I'll give youa more informed
opinion. Until then, well... Ameri-centrism
is*reality*----whether the French, Iranians, Canadians or,
frankly, Americanslike it or not. American culture is the most
important (or
at least the mostinfluential) in the world, right now, and was
already making *massive*inroads in the
70's.Not as massive as
you think.  Now it is very massive, and in the seventies, the
influence
was there, but it was not as massive as you
think.  Not all of those American bands
scoring hits in the States did likewise in
Canada.  Those Firefall songs you mentioned,
not all were hits in
Canada.  And Canada has
exported some culture (you did mention
Rush in your arena-rock list;
they're Canadian),
although not to the extent of the
United States.  American
domination is
extreme
in the visual media (motion pictures
and television), but less so in
other areas, like
music.  American domination in cultural
industries is extreme because this
is America's
largest export and they aggressively
promote and distribute their
cultural products.
They market it very well.  It does not
dominate because it is the *best*
culture out
there.
I think we're getting a little off-topic
here.
 
Steve
The Universe
Unbounded.
 
Visit "Star Trek: Athena" at http://ussathena.iwarp.com;">http://ussathena.iwarp.comhttp://ussathena.iwarp.com">http://ussathena.iwarp.com;
 






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