Doug Anderson (ethelthelogremovethis{at}yahoo.com) writes:
> "Jon565"  writes:
>
> (snip)
>
>> Since feminism is a popular movement, I think we need a list of
>> acceptable popular feminist literature that you will consider
>> acceptable.  Thus far you are just claiming that his evidence is
>> irrelevant.  This would be less painful if you could give a few
>> suggestions.
>
> Since feminism isn't really an organized movement,

False: See " National Organisation *For* Women ".

> but more of a way
> of looking at the world (a way that pays attention to how men and
> women are treated), I would suggest judging feminism by what it has
> accomplished, rather than by the words of a few controversial figures
> in a broad and decentralized movement.

Indeed. So,Feminism claims that DV goes up on Superbowl Sunday,
when it actually goes down. Feminism claims that men and women
are interchangable, when they are not. Feminism demands that all
Domestic violence be treated as man on women, when even Erin Pizzey,
the first writer on DV ( " Scream Softly Or The Neighbours Will
Hear " ), and the first to open a woman's shelter in the UK, 25
years ago was stateing that her research told her that DV was
as much about women attacking men, as men attacking women ( See
quotes in " Heterophobia ", Daphne Patai and " Not Guilty ", by
David Thomas ), for which Ms. Pizzey got death threats... from
Feminists.

Feminists do nothing but tell lies.

> There is no one who speaks for "feminism" any more than there is a
> person who speaks for "capitalism" or for "democracy."

Lie. See leader of NOW.

> (snip)
>
>> There have traditionally been fairly rigid sex roles.  It couldn't have
>> been any other way.  As the world has changed, rigid sex roles have
>> become less necessary.  There is always resistance to change.  The
>> change has taken place.  I think it's time for the ladies to admit they
>> have it pretty good and stop whining.
>
> Hmm.  Now I'm confused.  Most of the whining _I_ see comes from men,
> not women.

Of course, since you allow women to air complaints that men are denied.

Check out women's media, and consider how much of it is whining about
men, from " Sex And The City " to Oprah, teevee and magazine.

> As far as whether "ladies" have it pretty good: is it your assertion
> that preferential treatment of men has been eradicated?

Name one case where a man gets " preferential treatment ", *solely*
on the basis of his sex.

> I would argue
> that the situation is much better in the US than it was, say, 30 years
> ago.

For men ? You're joking ( Actually, hes not, and thats the really
insane part. ).

> In particular the law now treats men and women equally for the
> most part.

So, when women get custody of minor children some *84%* of the time
( NOW figures, www.now.org ), thats " equal " ? LOL !

> There remains (not surprisingly - attitudes don't change in a
> generation) a large reservoir of sexism, and cultural traditions of
> sexism.

Indeed. Reservoirs of *misandry*. See " Spreading Misandry; The
Teaching Of Contempt For Men In Popular Culture ", Paul Nathanson
& Katherine Young, 2001, McGill/Queens Univ Press.

> Larry Summers's comments notwithstanding, I suspect this
> reservoir accounts for some of why men run both the government and
> almost all large institutions in the U.S.

Like it couldn't just be... competance ? Or, that while 52% of US
voters are women, *they refuse* to support many female candidates.

" Feminist Rule Number One: When there is anything to complain about,
always, always, blame the nearest man. "

> In the meantime, back on the "whine" front: for example, on
> alt.support.marriage it is extremely unusual for a poster to criticize
> 'all men,' or even men as a group.

So now, asm represents the world ? Interesting... Insane, but interesting.

> On the other hand, it is
> commonplace for a poster to make claims about 'all women' or 'American
> women' or womanhood in general.

Indeed. See " trends ".

> You've just done it yourself in a backhanded way by saying it is time
> for "ladies to ... stop whining."  Your presuming that
"ladies" do
> some disproportionate amount of the whining.

Correctly, too.

Just for today's feminist whines, see the Ottawa Citizen, Page
C2, " The Great Divide; Lets ignore the gender imbalance--for a
day--and salute life's fabulous women ", by Janice Kennedy.

It contains such whoppers as " generally, women simply aren't
considered as important as men. "

Sure. Thats why men outlive women by seven years... Oh, wait
a second, its... the other way around.

What is more telling in who society values, then who lives
longer ? BTW, in 1930, the lifespan gap was in women's favour,
by one year. Those bastard men, making women live longer !
How dare they, when that makes women's complaints about being
less important crap ?

For more on Mr. Anderson's fallicies of Feminism, see FAQ:
feminist myths and tricks frequently used to disrupt discussion.

Among them:

You can't criticise Feminism because no statement you make is true
of _all- Feminists.

This trick tries to block discussion by making it impossible to
express your thought. The writer simply specifies that by "Feminism",
he means mainstream Feminism, misandry. Another approach is to qualify
the term: "Gender Feminism", "Biofeminism", or
"Radical Feminism".

I would add that this Trick also makes it *impossible to say anything
good about Feminism*.

Andre



--
" I'm a man... But, I can change... If I have to... I guess. "
                                    The Man Prayer, Red Green.


--- UseNet To RIME Gateway {at} 3/6/05 8:04:40 PM ---