From: Adam Flinton 

Robert G Lewis wrote:
> "Adam"  wrote in message
> news:42c11376$1{at}w3.nls.net...
>
>>Tony Ingenoso wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Rest comfortable in the fact that the euros will be getting theirs first
>>>simply because they're more convenient and closer.  They don't understand
>>>that their decadence and levels of discrimination exceeds ours and that
>>>is a
>>>factor in target selection.
>>>
>>>The Dutch got a very tiny taste not long ago and completely whigged out
>>>over
>>>something we would have taken in stride.
>>>
>>>Its not like the US borders are sealed and impenetrable - any dolt can
>>>wash
>>>ashore anywhere virtually unmolested, or just hike across a border.  Yet,
>>>we've had virtually no domestic incidents of note since 9/11.  On
>>>hesitates
>>>to credit this with the efficiency of the CIA/FBI/DHS/etc since they're
>>>still fighting turf wars and largely incompetent anyway.
>>>
>>>When the heavy lifting is required, you know who they'll come looking to
>>>;->
>>>
>>Chuckle. Yeah right when you're over stretched. Tell me Tony, which
>>country is currently leading mil efforts in Afghanistan under the aegis of
>>NATO?
>>
>>& before that?
>>
>>& before that?
>>
>>Gee when you want people who can actually get along with people & cool
>>rather than inflame a situation then the US goes begging round Europe.
>>
>>It's not like the US can do peacekeeping/peacemaking is it?
>>
>>
>>Adam
>>
>
>
> How much emphasis is placed on attack / battle operations in the British
> Army and how much time is spent on peacekeeping / local development ?
>

Depends on the formation. SBS/SAS etc don't spend that much time on peace
keeping coz they're meant to know how to get on with people already (e.g.
in Malaya).

In general both parts are part of the modern soldier. You hope for no
fighting period. Lots of smiling & shaking hands etc. It's the old
"art of war" thingy i.e. the war won without fighting is the best
victory.

In general UK troops (partly coz of our national character) like to get in
close whether that's to slap someone on the back & have coffee or use a
knife. Your "kill at a distance" is nice when facing organized
enemy formations but most wars since 45 the Uk has been involved with have
not been of that sort (e.g. Falklands, Suez vs all the "end of
empire" engagements.)


> We are very very good at the former but I don't think troops trained to kill
> it if it moves are a good fit in a non battlefield situation.

It's deeper than that. It's the acceptance of people as people & they
might be as good as you etc. I think they key diff is that UK troops fight
best when they think they're the underdog (e.g. Dunkirk is a victory,
Glorious Glosters (
http://members.tripod.com/~Glosters/Imjin.html ), Charge of the Light
Brigade etc. etc) whereas US troops need to think they "number 1"
for morale to keep up.

This bleeds into actions on the ground. We're happy to accept right from
the get go that Iraqi with guns might be as good as us if not better. It
makes for more of a challenge that way.

> We do have
> some trained for the latter but I wonder how much training across the board
> has been done.
>

I'm coming round to the views of those older & wiser than I that it's
cultural & the US mil culture seems unlikely to change (US marines
shouting strange things sounding like "booyah" & stuff like
that).

Johnie Watts came back from a recon in Vietnam to tell the PM that in no
way should the UK get involved. The reasons then apply now. Nothing has
changed. The blame was cast on pols "meddling" in Mil matters but
that wasn't the basic reason. The basic reason is that the US mil won't
even listen to it's friends so what hope does it have in terms of learning
from it's enemies.

An example:

We have lost a number of soldiers in unpleasant circumstances. E.g. the
MP'es surrounded by a mob. Now the UK Land forces could have gone in
"in full force" & could have found those responsible via
picking up all males between 15 & 80 (& to view all locals as
possible enemies) but the harder (but more productive) thing to do was to
go round to the local leaders & sit down for a cup of coffe & try
& sort things out even though you know that just outside may be some of
the people who killed your mates.

THere are so many other examples which I could use as a "compare &
contrast" that I am starting to accept that the difference is cultural
& not down to training.

Adam

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