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Hello Bill - 

>> WINNT = poking at little pictures 

>> LINUX = understanding how the OS works 

>> I wonder why the WINNT people are cheaper? LOL 

BB> That's a bit mean, Charles. 

Hello Bill, been awhile. You're right, it was a bit on the mean
side. I always think FIDO people are confident enough not to be
offended by a jab now and then but there are others who lurk
who may not easilly ignore a jab. 

I'm not an OS zealot and the coment was in jest not to be taken
seriously (the reason for the 'LOL'?). 

BB> It is really horrendously difficult to program in C for
BB> Windows. That is why MS invented Visual C - which as you
BB> say is poking at little pictures. But then so is Visual
BB> Basic &c, &c. 

It has become horrendously difficult to program in any language
since C++ (which is 'wordy' to me coming from ASM originally). 

My daughter wants me to learn ASP code and I find it wordy,
redundant, and it's intended uses seem to focus more on
invading the user's terminal than for doing anything productive
(beyond database manipulation which is her reasoning). 

BB> What is the particular virtue of knowing how the OS works,
BB> anyway? Unix is so much simpler and more straightforward
BB> than Windows that it is much less of a challenge. 

Guess that would depend on what you want from the OS? User apps
are plentiful, drivers to control peripherals are not. When I
go after an OS with programming it is usually for lack of
access to peripherals or to convert from one OS file format to
another etc. 

BB> Comparing unix to Windows is like comparing a clean made up
BB> jigsaw puzzle to a bowl of cooked spaghetti. Depends
BB> whether you want to eat or to be entertained, I guess. :-) 

I like to do both. :-) 

I use DOS, Linux, W31, W98SE, and W2K here each week (not all
in the same day necessarilly) and each has it's uses. Using a
dosbox in W2K to reply to your message with a rewritten version
of ATP I did for myself because it wasn't doing enough when I
found the 'C' source code. :-) 

BB> The virtue of C is programming in a way that works in any
BB> environment, and if it has to be ported across platforms,
BB> having separate platform-specific interchangeable modules
BB> that can be conditionally compiled automatically. 

That would be a virtue of the MAKE utility from my perspective.
Anyone wanting to do what you describe needs to really learn a
generic MAKE command set and use it. :-) 

'C' is just a place to hide from ASM for me. ASM can become
tedious at times and 'C' is _almost_ as good/fast. :-) 

BB> So really good WINNT programmers may even be a little more
BB> expensive than average unix programmers. You get what you
BB> pay for. 

I'm not really clear as to how a 'good' programmer is
classified. When I was paid to write software I cheated with
every 'helper' app I could find and didn't really care if the
code was 'clean' or even how fast. I only wanted results. 

As a hobbyist my frame of reference is different and I will
spend hours, days, even weeks tweaking code and cleaning out
what is not required. 

I suspect my normal definition of 'good' is the hobbyist in me
and at work my opinions would amount to snot? 

Which also explains the 'LOL' in my previous post. I know my
opinions are worthless in the work environment and find it
amusing (to me). 

>
>        ,                          ,
>      o/      Charles.Angelich      \o       ,
>       __o/
>     / >          USA, MI           < \   __\__
 

___ * ATP/16bit 2.31 * 
... DOS the Ghost in the Machine! http://www.undercoverdesign.com/dosghost/

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