1237c8c895df
c_echo



Hello Bob - 

BS> OK, for the sake of the audience, this probably needs to be
BS> said... 

BS> Charles and I have crossed paths many times over the years. 

Yes, I was here when you still collected the SNIPPETS from
other programmers. 

BS> If you reread some of our exchanges, it quickly becomes
BS> obvious that he considers me an arrogant a**hole and I
BS> consider him a belligerent fool. 

Don't put words in my mouth. I consider you to be just what you
are, an opportunist - and thanks for the comment about me. It
makes it easier to disagree with you. 

BS> Our positions seem to have moderated little over the years.
BS> Hence, when either of us makes an appearance, if the other
BS> is around, the sniping usually begins shortly after. 

I wasn't sniping, I was offering what I perceive as good
advice. You came here apparently dead-ended and I offered
suggestions as to how to rethink your approach and continue
moving forward. You have tunnel vision (as usual). 

BS> Perhaps this whole thread make a bit more sense now... 

The "belligerent fool" comment certainly does justify my
perceptions of you, yes. 

BS> On Thu, 31 Jul 2003 CHARLES ANGELICH wrote: 

JB>>> > how would that be mutually beneficial? 

>> > It wouldn't be mutually beneficial they would be
>> > misrepresenting 

>> their agenda. 

BS> Charles, everyone who knows me knows that about the most
BS> WYSIWYG person alive. If you see a hidden agenda, then I
BS> suggest you take a Psych 101 course and read up on
BS> "Projection". 

No, everyone who was here and got to know you well enough also
left this echo because of you. 

CA>>>> There is no "sense of chauvinism" here 

JB>>> > look it up. (why did you mention American?) 

>> > #1 We _used_ to be able to say "buy American" without
>> > having to 

>> apologize for it. 

BS> There's still no need to apologize for it. However,
BS> inherent in the slogan itself are the concepts of both
BS> enlightened (financial) self-interest and excessive
BS> patriotism. Another word for excessive patriotism is
BS> chauvinism. 

You obviously feel the need to apologize for being an American,
I don't. 

BS> If you say your promotion of the slogan is based solely on
BS> economic considerations, no one can really argue with you
BS> unless they can read your mind. However, since the concept
BS> does include an element of chauvinism, it's hardly
BS> surprising to see someone interpret it that way. 

With Americans like you we don't really need the French anymore. 

>> #2 Bob apparently is in the US. He stated that the
>> publishers won't sell the book to him because they are in
>> Europe and he is not. Following this so far? Therefore if he
>> selected an American author (the same country Bob resides
>> in) that would no longer be an issue? Is this good for you? 

BS> Actually, I was reporting what the company purchasing lady
BS> told me. It turns out that the reason she couldn't buy it
BS> from Amazon UK or Amazon Germany is that they were out of
BS> stock as well. :-( 

I based my replies to you on what you had posted here. If you
mislead all of us who is to blame for that? 

>> No, actually you're wrong. Bob has said many times he
>> already has a copy of the book and "guards it jealously".
>> Bob wants to double dip and sell the flyer referencing the
>> book _and_ the books required to decrypt the flyers. 

BS> First of all, company or departmental coding standards can
BS> hardly be described as "flyers", but first let's look at
BS> the economics involved... 

A three page document that refers to a nonexistent book is a
flyer or 'infomercial' for the book. 

BS> The reason technical books exist is so that experts can
BS> convey their knowledge succinctly to a wide audience. The
BS> book in question undoubtedly took Straker many months to
BS> write, proofread, etc. Few companies could afford to pay
BS> standard consulting rates for all the work he put into it.
BS> By publishing it as a book, his time is paid for and
BS> everyone gets to benefit. 

BS> If the book isn't available, it will take me longer to
BS> generate the coding standards document and will require
BS> more defense of my recommendations. Sure I can go back to
BS> his book and its bibliography for reference, but the
BS> ultimate result, in terms of information availability, is
BS> the same. The only difference is that I will have to spend
BS> more time writing and in meetings. Since all my time is
BS> billable, that makes the process economically attractive to
BS> me, but not to my client. 

BS> If the book is available, everyone wins - the client's cost
BS> is minimized and I have to spend less time doing
BS> non-programming (i.e. non-fun) tasks. If I were able to
BS> arrange republication rights, there is no difference to the
BS> client, they will have to spend the same money whoever they
BS> buy the book from. The only economic impact is that I will
BS> make considerably less money, both gross and net, than if I
BS> were to do as you suggest and write the whole document from
BS> scratch without referencing the book. 

YOU came here saying the book wasn't available and now you say
it is and give me a lecture about how much it will help. I
think you are confused or just looking for people to annoy. 

BS> The economics is really simple. Perhaps your problem in
BS> comprehension stems from your not being able to consider
BS> that a consultant might do something which actually
BS> minimizes his client's costs. 

I worked as a PC consultant for 8 years and I didn't constantly
refer to books the company did not have. 

>> You have a real problem with this don't you. 

BS> Well, someone does, and I don't think it's him. 

You removed what I was replying to, it was the second time
being American was brought into question in the same message by
the same person. Crawl around apologizing for being American if
you think it makes you more 'continental' but I think it makes
you just what you are, an opportunist. 

>
>        ,                          ,
>      o/      Charles.Angelich      \o       ,
>       __o/
>     / >          USA, MI           < \   __\__
 

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