On 8 Mar 2005 13:30:04 -0800, "lukne"  wrote:

>
>Andre Lieven wrote:
>> "Baggy" (Aggy2005{at}hotmail.com) spouts empty Feminist cliches:
>> > "Andre Lieven" 
wrote in message
>> > news:d0klou$4up$1{at}theodyn.ncf.ca...
>> >>
>> >> "Craggy" (Aggy2005{at}hotmail.com) shows an
inability to understand
>> >> personal responsibility, a trait common to Festering Femmeroids:
>> >> > Andre Lieven wrote:
>> >> >> "Saggy" (Aggy2005{at}hotmail.com) demands
that men be responsible
>for
>> >> >> women:
>> >> >>> Batroc Z Leaper wrote:
>> >> >>>> In article
>,
>> >> >>>> laurann{at}sprintmail.com (lukne) says...
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>> Gosh, you certainly have your mind
made up.  How about women
>who
>> >> >>>>> haven't yet had children?  What
should they do?
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> Get their tubes tied.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> or their partners could have the snip, dear.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> No need, ferret face:
>> >> >
>> >> > That might mean something if you had ever seen me,
dear but like
>you it
>> >> > doesn't.
>> >>
>> >> Term denotes inner ugliness of the Feminism.
>> >
>> > No proof given dear.
>>
>> Proof repeated right below.
>>
>> >> Claim succeeds.
>> >
>> >  Your claim fails again!
>>
>> 
>>
>> Behold the inner ugliness and misandry hate of Feminism:
>
>The misogynistic tripe from this newsgroup is just as bad.  



It's one more example of a point that I've made all along.

The kind of smug females who like to say

1) "I'm not a feminist, but..." and 

2)  "angry men are just as bad as the feminists"

can never actually be heard to CONDEMN the feminists that "I'm not
(but)" and that their male targets are "just as bad" as.

But both statements allow women to treacherously play the
triangulation game.



>Andre, you
>certainly have put a lot of time and thought on society's alleged
>misandry and all I can ask is why? 


The Eternal Feminine draws us onward and upward.  More smug
self-righteous female language games.

If you were hated by large groups of men for having been born female,
including (and led by) tenured professors at universities and
critically-acclaimed authors, do you think that this might compel you
to put " a lot of time and thought" in considering the matter?



>Do you have any other hobbies?  Any
>family . . . friends?




Now, THAT'S a female rhetorical trick that has never been used before.

Perturbation over the notion that some of the most highly educated and
critically acclaimed women in the world, movers and shakers in
society, believe that "all men are rapists" and that "men
are Nazis"
and are encouraging other women to think the same, is a result of some
strange fanatical quirk on HIS part - and has NOTHING to do with the
women in question.




>And the fear you display over vasectomies is almost comical.
>Vacectomies are the easier procedure than having a woman getting her
>tubes tied.  Any doctor, male or female, will tell you that.  And here
>is the kicker Andre, when people marry, they become a team and SHARE
>responsibility for procreation.  So if the guy wants to take
>responsibility to not create any more kids, and he rightly beleives
>that vascectomy is the easier procedure, then he may go ahead and do
>it.  You see, Andre, love is not a competition.  We don't keep score --
>we support each other as much as possible.  



How would you know?  You don't love anybody.



>Also, here is another
>earth-shattering fact.  Uteruses don't spontaneously create children -
>sperm, from men, must be part of the equation.  


WOW!  So then, of course, you realize that reproductive rights are NOT
ONLY the prerogative of women.  You realize that since "sperm from men
is part of the equation", men are entitled to reproductive rights too
- to say nothing of respect for THEIR unique role in procreation.

And so, of course, you support reproductive choice for men, as well as
women.  Because after all, "love is not a competition".  And people
who love each other should "support each other as much as possible".

And so you not only support reproductive choice for men, but you have
been VOCAL in such support.  

And you've been especially vocal on behalf of male reproductive rights
towards those feminists (both inside and outside this newsgroup) who
insist that their womb is their chariot, those feminists that you are
not one of and that angry men are just as bad as - both inside and
outside of this newsgroup.

And you can prove your conspicuous support of male reproductive rights
either by supplying links and/or convincing anecdotal evidence.

Yeah.


>I don't expect you to
>understand much of this since you're too preoccupied in wallowing over
>how you've been screwed by misandrist society.



No one expects YOU to get any of what is being sarcastically conveyed
to you because your female self-absorption has made you extremely
comfortable with the advantages that misandrist society conveys upon
you.



>>  "I believe that women have a capacity for understanding and
>compassion
>> which a man structurally does not have, does not have it because he
>> cannot have it. He's just incapable of it." -- Former Congresswoman
>> Barbara Jordan
>>
>> "All men are rapists and that's all they are" -- Marilyn French,
>> Author, "The Women's Room"
>>
>> "I feel that 'man-hating' is an honorable and viable political act,
>> that the oppressed have a right to class-hatred against the class
>that
>> is oppressing them." -- Robin Morgan, MS. Magazine Editor
>>
>> "I claim that rape exists any time sexual intercourse occurs when it
>> has not been initiated by the woman, out of her own genuine affection
>> and desire." -- Robin Morgan
>>
>> "And let's put one lie to rest for all time: the lie that men are
>> oppressed, too, by sexism--the lie that there can be such a thing as
>> 'men's liberation groups.' Oppression is something that one group of
>> people commits against another group, specifically because of a
>> 'threatening' characteristic shared by the latter group--skin color,
>> sex or age, etc. The oppressors are indeed FUCKED UP by being
>masters,
>> but those masters are not OPPRESSED. Any master has the alternative
>of
>> divesting himself of sexism or racism--the oppressed have no
>> alternative--for they have no power--but to fight. In the long run,
>> Women's Liberation will of course free men--but in the short run it's
>> going to cost men a lot of privilege, which no one gives up willingly
>> or easily. Sexism is NOT the fault of women--kill your fathers, not
>> your mothers." -- Robin Morgan
>>
>> "My feelings about men are the result of my experience. I have little
>> sympathy for them. Like a Jew just released from Dachau, I watch the
>> handsome young Nazi soldier fall writhing to the ground with a bullet
>> in his stomach and I look briefly and walk on. I don't even need to
>> shrug. I simply don't care. What he was, as a person, I mean, what
>his
>> shames and yearnings were, simply don't matter." -- Marilyn French,
>in
>> "The Women's Room"
>>
>> "Heterosexual intercourse is the pure, formalized expression of
>> contempt for women's bodies." -- Andrea Dworkin
>>
>> "In a patriarchal society, all heterosexual intercourse is rape
>> because women, as a group, are not strong enough to give meaningful
>> consent," said Catherine MacKinnon in Professing Feminism: Cautionary
>> Tales from the Strange World of Women's Studies.
>>
>> "And if the professional rapist is to be separated from the average
>> dominant heterosexual [male], it may be mainly a quantitative
>> difference." -- Susan Griffin "Rape: The All-American Crime"
>>
>> "The institution of sexual intercourse is anti-feminist"
-- Ti-Grace
>> Atkinson "Amazon Odyssey" (p. 86)
>>
>> "[Rape] is nothing more or less than a conscious process of
>> intimidation by which all men keep all women in a state of fear" --
>> Susan Brownmiller (Against Our Will p. 6)
>>
>> "When a woman reaches orgasm with a man she is only collaborating
>with
>> the patriarchal system, eroticizing her own oppression..." -- Sheila
>> Jeffrys
>>
>> FROM 'A Feminist Dictionary', ed. Kramarae and Treichler, Pandora
>> Press, 1985
>>
>>    *MALE: ... represents a variant of or deviation from the category
>>    of female. The first males were mutants... the male sex represents
>>    a degeneration and deformity of the female.'
>>    *MAN: ... an obsolete life form... an ordinary creature who needs
>>    to be watched ... a contradictory baby-man ...
>>    *TESTOSTERONE POISONING: ... 'Until now it has been though that
>>    the level of testosterone in men is normal simply because they
>have
>>    it. But if you consider how abnormal their behavior is, then you
>>    are led to the hypothesis that almost all men are suffering from
>>    "testosterone poisoning."
>>
>> Letter to the Editor: "Women's Turn to Dominate"
>> "To Proud Feminist, (Herald-Sun, 7 February). Your last paragraph is
>> shocking language from a feminist. You use the entrenched, revolting
>> male stereotypes of women and rationalize your existence by saying
>you
>> are neither "ugly" nor "manless", as though
either of these
>> male-oriented judgments matter.
>>
>> "Clearly you are not yet a free-thinking feminist but rather one of
>> those women who bounce off the male-dominated, male- controlled
>social
>> structures.
>>
>> "Who cares how men feel or what they do or whether they suffer? They
>> have had over 2000 years to dominate and made a complete hash of it.
>> Now it is our turn. My only comment to men is, if you don't like it,
>> bad luck -- and if you get in my way I'll run you down."
>> Signed: Liberated Woman, Boronia Herald-Sun, Melbourne, Australia - 9
>> February 1996
>>
>> "Men who are unjustly accused of rape can sometime gain from the
>> experience," said Catherine Comins, Vassar College Assistant Dean of
>> Student Life in Time.
>>
>> "Ninety-five percent of women's experiences are about being a victim.
>> Or about being an underdog, or having to survive... women didn't go
>to
>> Vietnam and blow up things up. They are not Rambo," said Jodie Foster
>> in The New York Times Magazine
>>
>> "If the classroom situation is very heteropatriarchal -- a large
>> beginning class of 50 to 60 students, say, with few feminist students
>> -- I am likely to define my task as largely one of recruitment...of
>> persuading students that women are oppressed," said Professor Joyce
>> Trebilcot of Washington University in "Who Stole Feminism: How Women
>> Have Betrayed Women."
>>
>> "We are, as a sex, infinitely superior to men." Elizabeth Cady
>> Stanton, quoted in " One Woman, One Voice ", Wheeler, page 58.
>>
>> "No woman should be authorized to stay at home to raise her children.
>> Society should be totally different. Women should not have that
>> choice, precisely because if there is such a choice, too many
>> women will make that one."  Simone de Beauvoir, author of _The
>> Second Sex_, the book that is credited with launching the
>> mainstream of the modern feminist movement
>> ---
>>
>> And...
>>
>> Article 912510 of soc.men:
>> Date: 7 Mar 2002 05:42:45 -0800
>>
>> The simple fact is that every woman must be willing to be identified
>> as a lesbian to be fully feminist." (National NOW Times, Jan.1988).
>>
>> "Since marriage constitutes slavery for women, it is clear that the
>> women's movement must concentrate on attacking this institution.
>> Freedom for women cannot be won without the abolition of marriage."
>> (radical feminist leader Sheila Cronan).
>>
>> "Being a housewife is an illegitimate profession... The choice to
>> serve and be protected and plan towards being a family-maker is a
>> choice that shouldn't be. The heart of radical feminism is to change
>> that." (Vivian Gornick, feminist author, University of
Illinois, "The
>> Daily Illini," April 25, 1981.
>>
>> "The most merciful thing a large family can do to one of its infant
>> members is to kill it." (Margaret Sanger, founder of Planned
>> Parenthood, in "Women and the New Rage," p.67.
>>
>> "In order to raise children with equality, we must take them away
>from
>> families and communally raise them." (Dr. Mary Jo Bane, feminist and
>> assistant professor of education at Wellesley College and associate
>> director of the school's Center for Research on Woman).
>> ---
>>
>> And...
>>
>> Article 1131798 of soc.men:
>> Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 13:56:33 +1200
>> ___________________________________________________________
>>
>> WHY HATE FEMINISM?
>> Feminism says this:
>>
>> "How will the family unit be destroyed?  ...[T]he demand alone will
>throw
>> the whole ideology of the family into question, so that women can
>begin
>> establishing a community of work with each other and we can fight
>> collectively.  Women will feel freer to leave their husbands and
>become
>> economically independent, either through a job or welfare." -Roxanne
>Dunbar
>> in "Female Liberation"
>> ___________________________________________________________
>>
>> "Marriage as an institution developed from rape as a practice.  Rape,
>
>> originally defined as abduction, became marriage by capture.
>Marriage
>> meant the taking was to extend in time, to be not only use of but
>> possession of, or ownership." (Andrea Dworkin)
>> ___________________________________________________________
>>
>> "In a patriarchal society all heterosexual intercourse is rape
>because
>> women, as a group, are not strong enough to give meaningful consent"


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