In article ,
 "Hyerdahl"  wrote:

> mark_sobolewski{at}yahoo.com wrote:

> I guess that's why Russian women pay so much for American blue jeans.>
> :-)  Right.
> >
> > Yeah, like... 20 years ago! :-)
>
> No, it's true even today, and Russian women love blue jeans still.

So if it's so true, give an example of a price that
Russian women are paying. :-)  (While you're at it,
try to find your NRA lifetime membership card :-)

> > > Most people from poverty stricken nations love American
> > > films and American fashion.
> >
> > It's funny to hear you parrot John Kerry's notion that
> > we should pass a "global test" and learn to be more
> > like the French and THEN turn around and say everyone
> > watches American films and wears Amercan fashions
> > because the peasants don't have an alternative. :-)
>
> ????  I don't know what you mean by a "global test", Mark; it doesn't
> take a test to know you can ply Russian women with American blue jeans
> and DVDs of Titanic.  :-)

Yikes!  Titanic?  You REALLY don't think much of their
taste, do you? :-)

> > > And if you pack a suitcase full of blue
> > > jeans, you can still make your tour of Russia.  :-)
> > > (edit)
> >
> > It's funny to hear you suggest that foreign brides
> > are going to have their hearts and minds won by
> > feminist values once they hit American shores when you
> > have such a condescending, incorrect view of their culture.
>
> There is nothing "condecending" I have said (or feel) about Russian
> culture, but it is obvious to me that poverty stricken Russian women
> sign up to marry American strangers, and yet American women don't feel
> the need to do the same.

Ever hear of eharmony.com?

> > As I said, times have changed since the politically incorrect
> > days of foreigners' accents being made of and them being
> > expected to assimulate into WASP values ASAP.
>
> I can't speak for your friends (if you have any), but I can assure you
> that mine would no more laugh at your mail order bride's accent than
> they would at her Levis.  :-)

That would be rather difficult since she doesn't own a pair. :-)
I think she does have some Italian jeans.

> > Here in the DC metro area, my wife is able to shop
> in Russian, Polish, and Ukrainian  stores and buy foods she misses.
>
> And that's wonderful.  But pretending to yourself that she won't pick
> up on American culture is just your expression of wishing and hoping.
> :-)  She didn't come here to stay in Russia.

Yeah, she came here to buy Titanic DVD's and Levis! :-)

Probably the LAST thing most modern Russian immigrants
come for is the "culture".  Many of them are in shock
at how dirty and dilapidated the inner cities are and the low
level of public manners and discourse.  One friend of mine
from Moscow broke down and cried when he saw what L.A. really
looked like.

With the internet and 10 cents a minute telephone rates,
most people in for the former USSR know that America is
nothing like Baywatch or even "Sex and the City".

I was laughing at propoganda from the metrovsretro.org
leftists claiming the blue states were enlightened
towers of progress with the "retro" states people
living on farms and trailer parks.

In realty, the inner cities where leftism is the strongest
are, at their best, office towers where most workers flee
for the suburbs at night.

> > Chicago has the second highest population of Poles outside
> > of Poland.  My father spent more time speaking Polish
> > in Scottsdale than he did in the ethnic Polish neighborhood
> > he grew up in Pennsylvania.
>
> Sure, but he also worked with Americans and socialized with them.  And,
> as I suggested earlier, my friend from Kuwait only took a few weeks to
> don cutoffs and tees.  :-)

I don't recall you mentioning this "friend."  Is he as
real as your NRA membership card? :-)

> > It's kind of funny to hear you talk of assimulation because
> > my wife was just asking me to take her to an "American"
> > restaurant.  I said there wasn't any, really.  I guess
> > could take her to a steak house but she's not a big fan
> > of steak.
>
> I think that's one of the best things about America is that it's the
> only place where you can eat Italian food served by an African waiter,
> and cooked by ???????  etc.

Indeed.  My wife suggested maybe opening up a Ukrainian
restaurant because she said that America lacked DECENT
restaurants.

The service SUCKS, the food is usually warmed up
generic Cisco meats and sauces for a McDonalds
trained American taste.

When I traveled around Eastern Europe, I developed a sense
of taste.  I barf when someone dares to bring me a cup
of tea with a BAG in a restaurant that claims
to serve ethnic cusine.

> Indeed.  The first thing my wife observed was "American
> > > > women sure are fat, aren't they?" :-)  Such women
> > > > really are going to convince these women to abandon their
> > > > values while patronizing them and insulting their
> > > > birth cultures.  Yeah, the men really need to worry! :-)
> > >
> > > Actually, Mark...Russian brides want to fit right in with their
> American neighbors.  Women enjoy relationships with other women.

My wife certainly has many women friends.  However,
she gossips about them all the time with me about how
she thinks one of them is snubbing her or about how the other
looks down on her, or how she finds the politics of one
loathsome.

Meow baby!

The one constant is that she wants to talk about all
of them with me.  I'm not going to worry too much. :-)

News flash: Sex and the City is a myth.  Women aren't
all hugs and kisses with each other.  At least not
on the surface.

> > I guess they'll need to put on some weight then and
> > learn how to dress frumpy. :-)
> >
> Either that, or the thin Russian woman will encourage the American fat
> woman to work out more.  But let's face it, Russian women come in all
> shapes and sizes as well.

Yeah, but they aren't "supersized" as much as the
liberated American gals. :-)

> And Americans are fatter than Europeans per
> se, but that includes FAT MEN.

Yeah, but we have bones to hang it on.  We don't lose
our figure if we throw on an extra 20 lbs.

I remember a cute conversation I had with an American
woman I met through the personals 10 years ago.  She
went on and on about what she demanded and asked
me how tall I was.  At that point, I had given
up so I thought, what the hell, I'll have a little
fun: I said 6 feet tall.

I asked her how much she weighed.

She fidgeted and said that she was "normal" and I asked
for a number.  She squeezed out 150lbs.

I said I didn't think things were going to work out. :-)

> > > Of course,> > Germany is not Russia and the young woman in
> question, was not a mail> order bride, but the reasoning is similar.
> Women enjoy one another's > companionship.  They simply don't stay at
> home all day to wait on Mark.
> >
> > Let's put it this way:
> >
> > Let's say you were offered a high paying job in Saudi Arabia
> > and accepted it.  Would you spend a lot of time hanging
> > out with the native women trying to learn their customs OR
> > would spend a disproportionate amount of time with ex-patriots?
> >
> Well, had you picked France or Germany I would say that I'd tend to
> hang with the locals.  After all, that would be why I'd want to travel
> in my work.   But you have a vested interest in seeing me beheaded.  I
> can't imagine why?  :-)

Not at all.  You tell me how women are so brave and changing
things.  I guess Saudi women will get rights when Saudi men
feel like giving them, eh? :-)

> My wife generally prefers the company of other internationals.
> >
> >  :-)They go to tupper ware parties :-);
> >
> > HAHAHAHAHAHA!
> >
> > Yeah, that's a scene out of a 1950's television serial. :-)
> >
> > When was the last time you went to a tupperware party?
> > We buy the cheapie containers ourselves at the grocery
> > store and don't cry if we lose one.
>
> Well, I was sort of afraid I'd freak you out if I mentioned the sex toy
> parties.  :-)  :-)  :-)

It's rather difficult to freak me out considering my past
sexual history. :-)

> > > they enjoy coffee at a
> > > neighbor's house;
> >
> > My wife loves Starbucks. :-)  Once again, you are soooo dated! :-)
>
> Yes, but they like going there together.

My wife enjoys going with me. :-)

> > > they take English classes with teachers like the one
> > > Juila Roberts portrayed in Mona LIsa Smile.  :-)  Rah...Rah...
> >
> > I'm afraid I'm not one of the 10 people who've seen that film. :-)
> >
> > Interestingly enough, my wife's English instructors, ALL of them,
> > are REPUBLICANS.  ESL classes generally are not liberal
> > indoctrination centers (they really don't have the time
> > or energy to bother with that nonsense.)  The students
> > who are there are VERY busy learning English.
> >
> > > > Ironically, ALL of my wife's English instructors have been
> > > > Republicans.
> > >
> > > So you say, Mark...and yet your wife does get out and will pick up
> > her
> > > own ideas.
> >
> > Actually, I think she's a bit too far to the right.
> > She makes my ears turn red with some of the things
> > she says.
> >
> I don't believe you.

I don't believe you don't believe me. :-)

You know I don't bother to make this stuff up.

>  But there are a lot of very sweet, practical, and even
>  attractive> > > "republican" working class women
out there often in>
> rural areas but also often in the cities working at jobs that "Sex>>
> and > the City" types sneer at: retail or factory work.
> > > > >
> > > > > There's nothing at all wrong with working in a
factory, Mark;
> > > >
> > > > Oh, I agree.
> > > >
> >that's> what I did to put myself thru schooling.  Most folks
> > have> > the desire to> better their lives and their
education.  You
> make it> > sound like a dirty
> > > > > word, education...or is that just when women get it?  :-)
> > > >
> > > > Er, no.  I didn't say anything bad about education.
> > > > I was merely commenting that such women consider such
> > > > men beneath them.
> > >
>  No.  Last time I checked, educated women like educated men and women
> who seek education like men who also seek education.
> >
> > I think this has gotten convoluted: I've said all
> > along that educated women tend to be snobs.  You then
> > tried to imply, falsely, that I was disparaging education.
> >
> Well, it seems that you think educated women need to spend time with
> factory workers.  I don't think educated women are any more "snobbish"
> than educated men.

I hate to give you a point, but you're right that educated
men tend to want to stay in their class if only because
of what they have in common.  I wouldn't feel right
with a woman who liked to watch wrestling and
hang out at bars.

But overall, I don't really think a lot about education
in terms of the woman having a degree and high paying job
and most men are the same way.  If the woman has something
to talk about with them that's in their same interest,
that's sufficient.

This is relevent especially for the MANY MANY aging career
women seeking the FEWER AND FEWER career men because
many professional people just aren't all that interesting.
They spend much of their time at work and beyond
work they often don't have a lot to talk about while
the video store clerk can discuss a variety of topics
from the tapes they've watched all day.

> > When you talk of such women "seeking" men, that's incorrect.
> > They don't "seek" such men.  They expect such men to seek
> > them out.
>
> You are assuming that women have the same NEEDS as men.  Clearly, they
> don't.

Indeed.

They have more.

Since they have greater demands of income or personal status
in a mate AND they have a biological clock that's ticking
AND there's fewer sexual partners available for them
in their catagory, they are really at a disadvantage.

This would be similar to you having only half as much
money as everyone else and waiting until the last minute
to go Christmas shopping...

> However, some women do WANT men in their life and those women
> might indeed "seek" men, but not likely men like you.

Agreed.  I'm not a Russell Crow.

I do have men who fit that bill, however, and they
were hit on by very successful professional women
and the men declined their offers.  Why?  Because
the men wanted a nice traditional sexist
relationship and they didn't feel the women could
live up to that.

That's the problem of the men who meet up to traditional
sexist standards of women: They also can be sexists.
Amazing how equality works, eh? :-)

>  (This explains why so many of them wind up
> > childless spinsters, eh?)
>
> How many?  How many women who want marriage end up alone vs men who
> want marriage?
> (edit)

Lessee: NONE of the men I know from my younger days are single.
NONE.  Even the dorky guys that got teased by women.
One after another, they got women who offered what
they wanted.  They grew and gained experience and
value and matured into the dating market.

Tiiiiiiiiiiiiime is on our side.  YES IT IS! :-)

> > > > I find it incredible, as I said, that Russian men aren't
> > > > more in demand with American women.  There are thousands
> > > > of attractive and well educated Russian men who would
> > > > make a lonely spinster a perfect husband.  I'm not too
> > > > proud to go halfway around the world for love.  I would
> > > > rather have that than make up partners that don't exist...
> > >
> > > Well, I don't think I go 'round the world for "love",
> >
> (edit of personal denigration)>
>
> > I think most women have a true mental need for men but
> > having a need, and being able to meet it, are two different
> > things (just ask mothers trying to get their kids
> > to exercise or eat vegetables :-)
>
> I don't think women have any greater need for men than men have for
> women.  In fact, men do need women if they want children, and/or
> regular sex with a marriage partner.

HAHAHAHA!  Or better stated: mooooo! :-)

This is a hilarious myth you have that men worry about
having children which is why they lower themselves to
consider, ick, women for that sex thing. :-)

Men have a lot of TIME.  Oh, I made that point.  Let's move on:

> > Women don't have the ability or the drive similar to men
> > to take the risks and action to "find" love they need.
> > This is one of the reasons feminism is doomed.
>
> Feminism is stronger than ever, Mark, as evidenced, in the west by the
> number of women going to college, and in other parts of the world by
> the growing desire for democracy.

You mean the same university system that's producing a
fraction of the engineers produced by India and China,
seeing costs spiral out of control, and agrees
that girls can't do math? :-)

The new status symbol for middle class women (those
who aren't childless and single) is to homeschool
their kids.  40% of kids in public school
fail basic reading and arithmatic national tests.

>   Feminism is alive and well, and

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