On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 08:50:56 -0800, Mark Borgerson
 wrote:

>In article , 
>grizzlieantagonist{at}earthlink.net says...
>> On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 22:35:58 -0800, Mark Borgerson
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> >In article , 
>> >grizzlieantagonist{at}earthlink.net says...
>> >> On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 09:15:49 -0800, Mark Borgerson
>> >>  wrote:
>> >> 
>> >> >In article
, 
>> >> >greg1199{at}yahoo.com says...
>> >> >> 
>> >> >> Viking wrote:
>> >> >> > Macy's ad--men standing around, waiting
obediantly to carry what the
>> >> >> > woman buys. Text: "Golfers bring
caddies. Shoppers bring husbands."
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Let them know what you think:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >>
http://www.macys.com/catalog/syndicated/remote/remotesyndication.ognc?Brand=FDSSURVEY
>> >> >> 
>> >> >> My response to the add:
>> >> >> 
>> >> >> Despite the stated purpose of this comment box,
I cannot tell you of an
>> >> >> in-store experience, because I will no longer be
in any of your stores.
>> >> >>  Why?  I find one of your recent advertisements
greatly offensive and
>> >> >> insulting.  The add shows men standing around,
waiting obediantly to
>> >> >> carry what their wives buy. The text reads,
"Golfers bring caddies.
>> >> >> Shoppers bring husbands."
>> >> >> 
>> >> >> Firstly, whoever wrote that is a flat sexist who
thinks of men as
>> >> >> little more than servants women use to do the
heavy lifting.  Also, has
>> >> >> it occurred to you that men do, at times, use
your store?  This will
>> >> >> undoubtedly come as a shock to someone dim
enough to liken married men
>> >> >> to golf caddies, but the floor space you use to
sell men's clothing
>> >> >> often attracts .... men, and you arrogantly take
them for granted when
>> >> >> you insult them.
>> >> >> 
>> >> >> Why do you insult men in an effort to woo female
shoppers?  Is it your
>> >> >> opinion that women enjoy seeing men insulted? 
Is it therefore your
>> >> >> opinion that most women, even married women,
hold men in some degree of
>> >> >> contempt?  What would lead you to believe such a
thing about women?
>> >> >> 
>> >> >> If I receive some incentive from you, I may
reconsider whether to
>> >> >> enter, ever again, one of your stores. 
Otherwise, Dillards is just as
>> >> >> good, and they don't insult men for fun and profit.
>> >> >> 
>> >> >\
>> >> >You could have added:   "Since when are the
golfers using the caddies'  
>> >> >money  to pay the greens fees?"
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >Mark Borgerson
>> >> >
>> >> 
>> >> 
>> >> Really, BM?
>> >> 
>> >> If someone else had said what you just said, you would
have responded
>> >> by challenging that person to prove that women use their husband's
>> >> money to shop in all instances.
>> >> 
>> >> And then if that person had bothered to respond that
married women use
>> >> their husband's money to shop in MOST instances, you would have
>> >> responded, "That's probably true, but can you PROVE
it?  And aren't
>> >> there a large number of unmarried female shoppers?  And besides,
>> >> aren't most married women at least employed PART-TIME, so
who's to say
>> >> whose money they're spending?"
>> >> 
>> >> In the end, you would have pedanticized this secondary
factual issue
>> >> to death in order to draw heat away from the overriding issue of
>> >> whether this ad was appropriate - and you probably would have found
>> >> some other reason to justify the ad.
>> >> 
>> >> So you're willing to allow yourself the freedom to criticize
>> >> women-firstism once in a while, are you?  When are you
going to allow
>> >> others that same freedom?
>> >> 
>> >> 
>> 
>> >I've never tried to stop anyone from criticizing anything.  I just try
>> >to point out those instances when  their arguments get a bit ridiculous.
>> >The analogy between shoppers and  was faulty and I pointed it out.
>> 
>> 
>> >Thank you for filling in the details.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> I didn't fill in any details.  I simply pointed out how you were
>> holding yourself to a different standard than you hold others, and I
>> still maintain that.
>> 
>Well I still admire your pedantry, whether real or simulated.   ;-)
>> 
>> >>Is 'pedanticize' even a real word?  I couldn't find it in any of the
>> >online dictionaries.  Maybe  it only appears in those special 
>> >dictionaries they give to lawyers!   ;-)
>> >
>> >
>> >Mark Borgerson
>> 
>> 
>> It probably isn't a real word.  I tried to find in my dictionary a
>> verb form of "pedant" or "pedantic" and
couldn't find one - so I
>> exercised some creative liberties to manufacture
"pedanticize" because
>> it seemed to fit.
>> 
>> 
>
>I think it worked OK.   Life would be pretty frustrating if everything
>we wrote had to conform either to the standards of technical manuals
>or legal briefs.
>
>
>Mark Borgerson


What makes you think that legal briefs are required to be boring and
conventional?

I once worked in a firm across the hall from a defense firm that did
some work for the Los Angeles Dodgers.

Some fan sued the Dodgers for being hit by a foul ball, and I read a
brief written by the Dodger's firm which closed with the last stanza
from "Casey at the Bat".


------------------------------------


grizzlieantagonist{at}yahoo.com

"Ladies and gentlemen - let's have a round of applause for tonight's
player of the game - FRAN-CIS-CO SAN-N-N-N-TOS!
    - Brian Anthony (P.A. announcer at Grizzlie Stadium), June 11, 2004


"Men are qualified for civil liberty in exact proportion to their
disposition to put moral chains upon
 their own appetites; in proportion as their love of justice is above their
rapacity; in proportion 
 as their soundness and sobriety of understanding is above their vanity and
presumption; in proportion
 as they are more disposed to listen to the counsels of the wise and good,
in preference to the flattery
 of knaves.  Society cannot exist unless a controlling power upon will and
appetite be placed somewhere, 
 and the less of it there is within, the more there must be without.  It is
ordained in the eternal 
 constitution of things that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. 
Their passions forge their fetters."
     
     - Edmund Burke, Letter to a Member of the National Assembly (1791)


--- UseNet To RIME Gateway {at} 3/12/05 4:56:48 PM ---