From: John Cuccia 

On Wed, 10 Aug 2005 16:48:34 -0400, "Gary Britt"
 wrote:

>1.  These Apostles would have to know that Jesus did die; know that either
>by their own hands or at their direction the body of Jesus was removed from
>the tomb and hidden/destroyed; and still be able to hold on to a sincere
>delusion that Jesus did not die

That's not the delusion.  I have no doubt that Jesus lived and was
crucified.  The delusion is that he rose from the dead.

>and did in fact come to them and speak to
>them on more than one occasion.  Its one thing to be delusional about a lie
>you did not personally help create, but to become sincerely delusional in
>one's heart about a lie that they would have had to have directed and/or
>participated in??

Hallucinations feel real to people affected (afflicted?) by them. There
would be no lie involved, nor would they be participating in a lie.

>That's really stretching things.  Especially when this
>same delusion in spite of direct knowledge of the underlying contrary facts
>had to replicate itself in 11 different people all at the same time.

I'm not saying that Jesus' life and death was a delusion.  They were verly
likely real.

>Not
>one of them, not even "doubting Thomas", said wait a minute
fellas we just
>hid Jesus' body two days ago, and now you all sincerely believe in your
>hearts that we didn't hide Jesus body and that Jesus was resurrected.

Why do you keep implying that Jesus' death and burial was part of the
possible delusion?   I don't think they were.

>I'm sure I could go on about the reasons why the mass yet sincerely felt in
>their heart delusion of all the Apostles is such an insignificant
>possibility that it really fails to detract in any way from the two real
>choices.  Those choices being that 1. these 11 Apostles were liars and con
>men or they were telling the truth about what they said they saw with their
>own eyes.

The nature of delusion is such that they would be telling the truth about
what they (believed they) saw with their own eyes.

The idea of mass hallucination is much more believable to me than the idea
of a dead man rising from the dead and spending a few weeks visiting with
friends before rising bodily into heaven.

--- BBBS/NT v4.01 Flag-5