in article cpde11$24jn$1{at}darwin.ediacara.org, Perplexed in Peoria at
jimmenegay{at}sbcglobal.net wrote on 12/10/04 4:12 PM:

> "John Edser"  wrote in message
> news:cp67us$2ue8$1{at}darwin.ediacara.org...
>> JE:-
>> Two rules historically exist and not just one:
>> 
>> 1) Haldane's Rule
>> 
>> 2) Hamilton's Rule.
>> 
>> These rules are different but remain
>> confused within the literature.
>> 
>> Haldane's Rule was derived
>> from Haldane's discussion in a pub
>> where he suggested he would sacrifice
>> himself for two brothers etc only because
>> 2*0.5 = 1 where sibs are related 0.5. [snip]
> 
> John, you are welcome to make your case that there is confusion
> between Haldane's pub argument and Hamilton's kin selection
> argument.  But please don't add to the confusion by calling the
> Haldane argument "Haldane's Rule".
> 
> In ordinary biological discourse, there already is a "Haldane's Rule"
> and it has nothing to do with altruism and sociobiology.  Look it
> up.  It deals with mules and the like.
> 
> 
> 
>> Here is my challenge: Provide any rule
>> you like, I don't care what it specifically
>> refers to. If the rule is used as a stand
>> alone measuring device as Hamilton's is,
>> then without at least one constant term
>> the rule may be logical but NOT
>> RATIONAL.
> 
> John, you will have to explain what you mean in saying that
> Hamilton's rule is used as a "stand alone measuring device".
> As I use the term "measurement", I don't see the rule as
> measuring anything.  I don't think that anyone, except perhaps
> Dr. Hoelzer, has ever suggested that it measures anything.  I
> realize that you use the term "measurement" in a different sense
> than other people.  Since that is the case, the onus is on you
> to explain how you are using the term and how Hamilton's rule is
> used (misused?) by neo-Darwinists to make "measurements".
> 
> Dr. Hoelzer, If you are reading this, you might wish to clarify
> what you meant in suggesting, if you did, that the rule has a role
> in the practice of "measurement".


Yes; I'm listening.

I don't think that I ever suggested that Hamilton's Rule can be used to
measure anything.  If JE, or anyone else, can produce a statement by myself
that implies such a thing, I would be happy to explain my intended meaning.
I do recall saying that the Rule defines a threshold point on one side of
which Hamilton's theory predicts that selection will favor the spread of an
altruism allele, and on the other side of which selection will tend to
decrease its frequency.

Cheers,

Guy Hoelzer
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