Hi Sheila,
 -=> Quoting Sheila King to Erica Long <=-
 SK> week ago. I think that there are several issues here, and it's not so
 SK> simple to say "yes, we read for accuracy" or "no, we don't read for
 SK> accuracy".
 You are absolutely right.
 SK> I do understand what you're saying about a "five year old...when they
 SK> begin to fly..." I've seen that occur in my own daughter. She cannot
 Most of my "progressing well" children are at the stilted word stage. The 
 ones that you worry about are those who can't hold a thought for long 
 enough to make sense of the writing. I really push the "it has to make 
 sense" line but some children who have not been exposed to lots of good 
 language in their first five years don't always know if it makes sense.
 When childen are first introduced to reading they are really reading from 
 memory and many parents mention this to you. I usually explain that this  
 a necessary step of the process. Then they start to be able to "see" the 
 words and letters and chunks. Actually this is interesting. One of my mum's 
 made this comparison this afternoon. She was marginally literate and asked 
 me at the beginning of the year what she could do about learning to read. I  
 did some of the initial running for her and she did the rest much to her 
 credit. She said that when she first started at night class she couldn't 
 "see" the words but now the letters and formations are jumping out at her.
 
 SK> I gave up on correcting her over every such error long ago, because it
 SK> did not make the reading enjoyable for us. It became tedious. But I
 Precisely and moreso for the one who is attempting to read than for the 
 "expert">>
 
 SK> think it IS important that she realize that she isn't reading exactly
 SK> what is on the page, so I do correct some of the errors, or point it
 SK> out when we've gotten to the bottom of a page, just so that she is
 SK> aware of it. 
 And I would do that too. It is a worry when thay don't seem to want to self 
 correct. I try to impress upon my children that it is okay to self correct 
 if they realise they have made a mistake. 
 
 -> Good readers skip words because they are fast and don't need to read
 snip
 SK> I did study this, this past week. I've been reading _The Hundred
 SK> Secret Senses_ by Amy Tan. For the most part, I read every single word.
 SK> Then again, I find that using myself as an example, especially for
 SK> things about education and the learning process, tends to not support
 SK> conclusions about the general population.
 That's true too. At uni they used to say to us remember you are the success 
 stories of the education system. You were the good readers. You need to 
 understand that not everyone was like you. 
 
 I was just rereading "Fathers and Sons" Ivan Turgenev and noticed I was 
 really reading slowly mainly because of the nomenclature and the Russian 
 style. Today I read a medical report on one of the children - so we are 
 prepared if he has any problems in the playground. I must have read it four 
 times before I comprehended what it was about.  
 SK> But, last night, as I was nearing the end of the book, I do find
 SK> myself skipping ahead, sometimes skipping over almost entire
 Reading for a different purpose.
 SK> So, I finally decided, that the way I read depends on the context of
 SK> the reading activity that I am engaged in. If I'm reading for my own
 SK> personal pleasure and enjoyment, I am at my own discretion as to how
 SK> accurately I read. I can afford to skip over words if I like (I know
 SK> this is a commonly taught speed reading technique, but I've never been
 That's right and that is why we should be teaching children that there are 
 different styles of reading, different times when accuracy is of the utmost 
 importance and other just times when its okay to read fast for fun - you 
 know escape for a while into one of those easy to read paperbacks! - and 
 everything in between. We teach them the different writing genres why not 
 different reading purposes. Last week we talked about reading story titles
 and how this could affect which book you borrowed from the library. If you 
 read the crow for cow it could make a real differnece.
 SK> I imagine that with the young children you are working with, that you
 SK> would classify almost all of your activities as reading for enjoyment,
 Not at all. BUT if you choose carefully you can disguise all that learning 
 as FUN.
 
 SK> and so skipping words seems OK in that context, as long as the general
 SK> meaning is preserved, seems OK. I certainly understand about the fine
 No. I never said I don't correct them if they are wrong. Sometimes if they 
 are having real trouble I'll ask them to read it with me or after me while 
 pointing out the words helping them to hear or internalise the words.
 If they can't get enough words they can't make the writing make sense so I 
 constantly point out cues. The other thing to note though is that you do 
 need to let them make mistakes to see where their thinking is. Or rather 
 hold off telling them the word until they have had time to work it out.
 I feel the best way to tell if a child is really reading is when they self 
 correct. (Don Holdaway) If they miscue and go back and correct then they 
 really know what the text is about. BUT we have to avoid jumping in. 
 Sometimes I make little noises like mm! to cue them if they are not using 
 self correction as a strategy. It is not quite as bad as NO. One of mine 
 kept looking at me today as he read. I asked him why he kept looking at me. 
 He said you keep doing this ie nodding when he was correct. I asked why 
 again and he told me it was because it was a hard book. I said yes but you 
 haven't needed my help so far, you can do it by yourself, which pleased him.
 So he understands the subtleties of non verbal communication but then again 
 he is going to be a good reader and again the strugglers are the challenge.
 SK> When should a student be held accountable for reading each word on the
 snip
 SK> Letting kids get by with sloppy, inaccurate reading skills past their 
 SK> third year of being readers is doing the student a disservice, IMO.
 
 Absolutely. They should be accountable from the word go. Its "their" 
 reading. Some have a long way to catch up before they can make much 
 progress. I believe there are some teachers out there who still believe that 
 children start school all at about the same stage and that by the end of 
 year one they have learned to read. I believe they go on learning to read 
 their whole school lives and therefore teachers need to be constantly 
 addressing this in their lessons.
 -> As for your daughter and spelling. Doesn't the hidden curriculum
 -> teach that what we allow, we teach?
 SK> to spell incorrectly. I don't think she was able to distinguish well
 SK> between when it was allowed (journal) and when it wasn't appropriate
 SK> (homework...at least in my opinion, I'm not sure what the teacher's
 I must say I find it very difficult to not want to correct journals. I 
 usually use them at the beginning of the year (YR 1) mainly to get them 
 used to the idea of putting a message on paper. I must have been a tad 
 frustrated at their lack of progress. I gave them lined books and when I  
 only got letters I would ask them if I could show them my way to write 
 it between the lines. I get them to reread it to me and it becomes an 
 early reading activity. So I guess you could say I have moved a long way 
 from the intention of journal writing. At other schools I have done it 
 differently but at my current location they need all the help they can get.
 SK> official stand on spelling for nightly homework was. I expect that she
 SK> simply didn't have time to check all these papers over, and counted on
 Wow, Sheila! This is a whole "nuther"  debate isn't it???? 
 I don't believe in setting homework for homework's sake.
 That if you set it you correct it.
 That tables and spelling and reading good books are nightly homework 
 essentials.
 That it should supplement the school work or complete/polish/prepare for 
 presentation that done in class; be something that parents can assist with 
 or keep track of so they know what is going on at school.  
 That it should not take longer to correct than to do. 
 That it should be discussed in class but not overtake class time. 
 -> If your daughter was in my class I'd be taking her aside while doing
 -> writing conferences and telling her how impressed I was at the way
 -> she gets the words right and using her as a role model etc etc.
 SK> Why would you use her as a role model? For a student who is far above
 SK> the average kid's ability in the class, it is easy to do well what the
 SK> others are having difficulty with. She doesn't expend hardly any
 Even electronic words are so black and white!!! As I said in conferencing 
 I'd be outlining my expectations to her firmly ie I know you know how to 
 spell these words...I expect...etc
                        
 SK> effort to do this. Using her as a role model only reinforces in her
 SK> mind that she can expend little effort and be praised any way. An
 SK> advanced student needs challenges. IMO, using her as a role model only
 No. Ididn't use the term role model as stand up in front of the class and 
 receive praise and glory. I try to find someting good about each child and 
 use that. Isn't  J... thinking carefully today. etc. I do guest reader and 
 guest writer. Children read to us and we give them positive comments and 
 I model one at the end so they have one for next time.
 
 SK> suspected that she does less well than she is able, in order to stand
 SK> out less from the rest of the class (purposefully missing words on her
 Of course, the Gifted and Talented Research would point this out as a
 remarkably regular trait. Bill Rogers, the current behavioural guru in 
 Australia, suggests that everytime you give positive praise to a child 
 in front of their peers you are really giving a negative message to all the 
 others but that again is another debate.
 SK> spelling tests and such). Better to privately encourage her to work
 SK> harder at her presentation, not just handwriting, but spelling as well.
 That is what I meant by conferencing. You didn't say that she was so far 
 above the rest of her class. I have a few like this in my class. Sometimes
 I feel like I'm at the zoo feeding the lions. They have to do the regular
 work and when they are finished I have a stack of extra activities for them 
 to do. I call them spare time activities and they get a kick out of that.  
 That was another reason why I started formal spelling with that group.
 They were ready for it. I this group were older I'd be making contracts with 
 them for extra projects etc.
 
 -> Are we teaching children to read every single syllable or language
 -> and literature and their fun and rhythm and games?
 SK> I would say, we are teaching both (not being an elementary or a
 YES.
 
 SK> (My children did attend a private school for a few years, where words 
 SK> were taught in isolation...a phonics method, similar to the McGuffy 
 SK> readers...a list of words on a page, practice sounding them out. I can't 
 SK> say I really liked this, but I can't dispute the fact that my kids are 
 SK> excellent readers and this may have helped.) 
 I'd say your children were always going to be excellent readers because you 
 spent time with them, conversed with them and read to them something we are 
 seeing less of these days.
 Seeya, 
 Erica.
--- Maximus/2 3.01
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