From: "Glenn Meadows" 

Would you have felt better if there were some Jewish songs in the same
group (equal representation)?

What I found interesting, is in NY, while everyone of course had Christmas
off from school, the Jewish students were also allowed to take off their
holidays, but the school was not closed.  These days were not taken as
"unexcused absences", although the kids did have to make up any
missed work. The teachers normally did NOT schedule tests or major events
for those days, either.

--

Glenn M.
"Ellen K."  wrote in message
news:kej8j15ormri5d28iglm9uunraupj835av{at}4ax.com...
>A little kid doesn't think about not doing what the class is supposed to
> be doing, or asking to be excused.  A high school kid maybe, but not a
> first-grader.
>
> This was during class, not at any kind of "performance event".
>
> I guess the best word for how I felt would be "devalued".
>
> I don't think public schools should be in the business of making some
> kids feel devalued because they don't belong to the majority religion.
>
> We had a menorah in our house at Chanukah.
>
> On Wed, 21 Sep 2005 15:56:33 -0400, "Gary Britt"

> wrote in message :
>
>>Did you feel like you were being forced to pray?  Did you think about just
>>not singing these songs or asking to be excused?  Were these songs
>>performed
>>at some event or just during the day for nobody else but the students
>>themselves?  If at an event did your parents come to watch you sing?  If
>>so
>>what did they think?  If your parents had told you that participating in
>>such songs just to be polite and tolerant of others beliefs at a time of
>>national holiday was ok, would you have felt better?  How traumatized by
>>this event were you really?  Looking back do you still think your reaction
>>was in proportion to the real harm, if any, caused?  Did you have a
>>Christmas tree or Hanukah Bush in your home growing up?
>>
>>Gary
>>
>>"Ellen K."  wrote in message
>>news:r842j1damq63pvj6b82bp0vmi41gtu84r4{at}4ax.com...
>>> Having been such an elementary school child, I have to tell you that
>>> this is not the case.  And my parents had nothing to do with it, I don't
>>> think I ever even talked to them about it.  In those days that was just
>>> how things were.
>>>
>>> On Tue, 20 Sep 2005 13:57:39 -0400, "Gary Britt"

>>> wrote in message :
>>>
>>> >I don't think there is a difference at all.  The elementary school
>>> >child
>>> >isn't going to think anything of it.  It certainly isn't
going to be a
>>big
>>> >faith shaking event for them, unless the parents make it one.  To an
>>> >elementary school child its just going to be a seasonal song of
>>> >entertainment, not faith.
>>> >
>>> >Gary
>>> >
>>> >"Ellen K." 
wrote in message
>>> >news:n7mui11nhuve5ubs4h591hh5bpdevib227{at}4ax.com...
>>> >> There's a difference between, for example a high
school student who
>>> >> signs up for choir and understands that many great
choral works have
>>> >> religious themes, vs elementary school children being
forced to sing
>>> >> this.
>>> >>
>>> >> On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 11:23:07 -0400, "Gary Britt"
>>> >> 
>>> >> wrote in message :
>>> >>
>>> >> >
>>> >> >"Ellen K."
 wrote in message
>>> >> >news:hrbti1l3t5dro6rettbda9ljjqmemmq1f6{at}4ax.com...
>>> >> >> On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 13:11:28 -0400,
"Gary Britt"
>>
>>> >> >> wrote in message :
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> >Well I think your analogy strays off a
bit with requiring to wear
>>> >things.
>>> >> >I
>>> >> >> >don't think anyone is suggesting
children be required to wear
>>crosses
>>> >or
>>> >> >> >compelled to say Christian prayers.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> "Oh, come let us adore him, Christ the
lord" isn't a Christian
>>prayer?
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >
>>> >> >Not when its part of a musical production and
national holiday.  Its
>>no
>>> >more
>>> >> >a solemn prayer than is Santa Claus a religious
symbol.  Even Neil
>>> >Diamond
>>> >> >performs Christmas songs.  I don't think the
Canter's son is praying
>>when
>>> >he
>>> >> >sings them.
>>> >> >
>>> >> >Its a celebratory entertainment piece and not the
observance of a
>>> >religious
>>> >> >prayer.  Its still "Christmas" after
all and until it gets changed
>>> >> >to
>>> >"Let's
>>> >> >all take a break from school at the Winter
Solstice Day" such songs
>>are
>>> >part
>>> >> >of the "Christmas" celebration and tradition.
>>> >> >
>>> >> >Its this kind of thing where a little tolerance,
patience, and
>>> >understanding
>>> >> >could be in order.  These things are part of the
cultural heritage
>>> >> >and
>>> >> >traditions of the majority since the founding of
the country, if
>>> >minorities
>>> >> >of any stripe and over any and all issues always
insist on being
>>> >completely
>>> >> >intolerant of the slightest and incidental
exposure to the majority
>>> >beliefs
>>> >> >and culture, eventually resentment of such
intolerance will develop.
>>> >That
>>> >> >won't be a good thing.for anyone.  Its one thing
not to want to be
>>> >required
>>> >> >to kneel down and really pray to a god not one's
own, but its quite
>>> >> >something else to treat a musical entertainment
piece as part of a
>>> >national
>>> >> >holiday that has existed since the country was
founded as exactly
>>> >> >the
>>> >same
>>> >> >as the former.
>>> >> >
>>> >> >Are your beliefs so shaky and insecure that they
might come tumbling
>>down
>>> >if
>>> >> >exposed to a musical with vaguely incidental
religious overtones
>>> >different
>>> >> >from your own?  If a family all lives in a
mansion of many rooms and
>>> >> >7
>>> >out
>>> >> >of 10 rooms has a cross, will you demand of your
brothers and
>>> >> >sisters
>>> >that
>>> >> >they cover their crosses so that you are not
offended by the sight
>>> >> >of
>>> >same,
>>> >> >or would good manners require tolerance to this
kind of minimal
>>exposure
>>> >to
>>> >> >the beliefs of your siblings?
>>> >> >
>>> >> >Gary
>>> >> >
>>> >>
>>> >
>>>
>>
>

--- BBBS/NT v4.01 Flag-5